L85 in .22lr

[rocket-dog]

Eons ago there was a chap who worked for BAE who campaigned a "works" L98 fitted with a LSW barrel.

The SA80 has its charms, for all its cheap plastic and pressed metal Baikalness, sorry I don't buy into the A2 being best in theatre. Why any civilian would want to own one I don't know.

The L98, the original cadet rifle, was awful too. And that was without all the fun of gas parts. I saw a rifle that had been serviced on Monday by the armourer on a Saturday not making through 10 rounds.

Nothing amiss with Baikals, if they don't go bang you can use them to drive nails in, no problems. Actually mine has always done the going bang bit, not so keen on ejecting sometimes.

Sorry.

Once a wise man said to me you are better off with a Baikal if you can hit your target than a £50,000 (shot)gun and not hit a thing. To be honest I actually like Russian and old Eastern Bloc stuff. It gets the job done without the pretentiousness of hgh grade metals and plastics just like the SA80. The only difference is you can't use an SA80 as a blunt instrument as it would break. Now the Lee-Enfield drill rifles we had would make wonderful hammers.......

[LeighC]

Often wondered myself why nobody makes a .22 SA80, would certainly be different to all the AR15 clones out there. I see Mossberg have released yet another one.

[Sim G]

While I was instructor with my old cadet unit we were fortunate to have an ex-Royal Marine join the staff. Our unit was in the grounds of TA unit which was also home to the HQ for the ACF. The ex-Royal persuaded the ACF and TA to let his section borrow the L98s for instruction and things sort of snowballed from there. His cadets went from shouting bang with LE drill rifles to being quite expert little marksmen within the space of the year. The kids thought it wonderful as they were using real rifles to practice their skills. I was dragged out on a number of occasions to help him because the other instructors in his section were, to use a technical word, crap.

Back to the SA80/L98. I must admit I wasn't too enamoured with the SA80 or L98 the first time I saw them or took them apart. I recognise those failures you list. Firing them was far,far from unpleasant which made up for the material failings. And my failings too as a crap shot. (Somebody said something a bit rude about shooting SA80s which I won't repeat being new.) Anyway one weekend the ex-Royal takes his lads down to Lympstone for the weekend. They spend some time on the range and an AR or two was produced which they all shot. At the next parade I asked them how they had gone on and to a man (boy) they raved about the AR and from then on the L98 lost its lustre. The fact that a bunch of inner city kids can tell something has serious quality issues indicates a lot.

There's a lot of opinion there for someone whose very limited experience is on the range with the cadets....

[rocket-dog]

There's a lot of opinion there for someone whose very limited experience is on the range with the cadets....

Well as you don't know me I will take your judgement of me as just as an opinion of somebody who has very limited experience of me.

I am new to your forum so what I will do the gentlemanly thing and withdraw from the forum.

[Sim G]

Well as you don't know me I will take your judgement of me as just as an opinion of somebody who has very limited experience of me.

I am new to your forum so what I will do the gentlemanly thing and withdraw from the forum.

A little precious don't you think....?

You're right, I have no experience of you, save for what you have written in seventy odd posts. So, tell me where I was wrong....

[tackb]

rocket dog , don't leave just because people are being rude to you ! there is a lot of borderline bullys on forums who seem to like belittling people, i don't know why ?

stay a member but withdraw from this thread if it upsets/annoys you ?

i've had a couple of occasions when even though i've apologised and asked to drop something the other party just won't ? just seemed to be angry/frustrated and unable to allow other people to have a different opinion to them without trying to bully them into their way of thinking.

I also used a lot of kit as a cadet including the SLR (and i caught the end of semi auto fullbores before the ban) but i don't often mention it on forums because a lot of (not all) ex service men seem to have a 'unless you've been a soldier your opinion is invalid' attitude !

i shall await my verbal thrashing ............

[M99]

Forget carrying one in the ACF - I carried one in numerous theatres and never once had a cocking handle fall off or anything else fall off for that matter. I never had a serious issue with mine ever - period! - yes the odd fail to feed or fail to extract - but that was generally down to the ammo.

It was a very accurate weapon and easy to carry in theatre, easy to clean and keep functioning. If the AR is/was so much better, why was every yank in desert storm trying to swap their ARs for our L85s?

Mike

[Sim G]

rocket dog , don't leave just because people are being rude to you ! there is a lot of borderline bullys on forums who seem to like belittling people, i don't know why ?

stay a member but withdraw from this thread if it upsets/annoys you ?

i've had a couple of occasions when even though i've apologised and asked to drop something the other party just won't ? just seemed to be angry/frustrated and unable to allow other people to have a different opinion to them without trying to bully them into their way of thinking.

I also used a lot of kit as a cadet including the SLR (and i caught the end of semi auto fullbores before the ban) but i don't often mention it on forums because a lot of (not all) ex service men seem to have a 'unless you've been a soldier your opinion is invalid' attitude !

i shall await my verbal thrashing ............

That was more precious than rocket-dog!

This is an internet forum. If you express an opinion and it is either clearly wrong or "built" on "experience" which is either very limited as a child or from other forums, then expect to be flamed by those who have somewhat more. Bullying? Please. Because you don't agree? No, the cry of the eternal victim when they have nothing else. And, if you use other forums you'll know that this is one of the most helpful and polite.

That said, on topic....

As with Mike, I too carried the SA80 operationally and also, had no parts fall off it or for it to fail. Previously, I had carried the L1A1 and what a revelation to be issued with a rifle that actually hit what you were aiming at! As for military ARs, they are NOT the crop done by DPMS, LMT or whoever. They were appalling! I also carried an M16A1. So how a child can discern the exceptional difference between that and an SA80 is frankly, fanciful.

As Mike also said, the reliability of the SA80 over the M16 is already well established. This has been enhanced considerably since the introduction of the SA80A2. Hunt out the NATO report you can read an official test. Ironically, the UK would probably be able to export the SA80A2 had Labour not dismantled Enfield and our capability to produce small arms....

And even more so, the current trend towards piston driven AR's and them being the best thing since sliced bread. Well actually, it was the Brits who mated the Stoner rotary locking with an FN short stroke piston in...... the SA80.

Cartridge development also sees the UK doing "it" well before others and the current fashion. But that is another story. Unless ofcourse you can bring to the table or just want to whine....

[tackb]

and there it is !

you see rocket dog , it's best to just leave it unless you want to get into a long he said she said you said this that and the other which will eventually lead to the moderators getting the hump (and rightly so)

i'll refrain from commenting anymore because i haven't 'carried operationally' so my views and opinions are obviously not valid.

oh and for the record i'm neither precious or a victim (far from it) , if our paths ever cross and we meet on a range or something sim g i'm pretty sure we'll get along fine and you'll see.

[dromia]

Enough please.

Its too early in the day and the week for bickering.

Any more and the thread is locked.

Please remember in most cases all that we know about each other here is what we read here. That no doubt is a very small reflection of who we really are at any point in time. However responses can only be based on what people read here to expect more is unreasonable therefore in these forum environments it is as well to build a bit of resilience into your persona as slights and insults perceived and real will surely come your way at some point.

Its only a forum, so say your piece and walk away people will judge the value of your contribution on that which you have written, no more no less.

Staying with any forum is a members choice however if we let our sensitivities protrude too much into this imperfect two dimensional environment them we are leaving ourselves open for slight.