Uncrimping a magazine tube

[walesdave]

Way Hay!!!
Gwent Police are back on form :cool2:

From July 24th to September 9th to REFUSE my one-for-one variation for a Sec1 shotgun ,they didn't even notify me but waited until I rang them (again!) to pass on the bad news....

As I guessed when applying, Gwent Police insist on full UKPSA membership or membership of a UKPSA affiliated club, and I belong to neither.

I do belong to a club that has built its' own Practical range and regularly shots target shotgun......but Gwent still insist that that's not good enough.

I did mention to the FEO that the 1997 Act doesn't mention the letters UKPSA anywhere that I can see...and he agreed with me and said he's been try to convince his manager that UKPSA membership isn't mandatory, but she hasn't listened .

He's not totally on my side though as he says if you're not a member of UKPSA, then being a member of the NRA will suffice...well damn them all to the hot place...I'm not joining any organisation when the law doesn't say I need to...

As far as I'm concerned, belonging to a club which has the facilities to shoot target shotgun and practical shotgun is enough of a reason to be granted....so gloves are off and here we go!!!

Little fat Welsh b****** against the might of Gwent Police...bring it on!!!

And no...I'm not a member of BASC or the NRA so will have to fight this alone....just like I like it :shakeshout:

[meles meles]

We'll cheer from the sidelines if we may...

[Mikaveli]

If you're not a member of the NRA, the UKPSA or a suitable affiliated club (such as Four Islands) then, as far as I understand it, you don't have a good reason for an S1 shotgun under current Home Office guidance.

When I applied for my FAC, my FEO wanted to know which disciplines I'd eventually be competing in etc. By (deliberately) avoiding membership of any recognised practical shooting organisations (or their affiliates), you're making it difficult to convince the police that you have a 'good reason' to own one.

Remember, with an FAC the onus is on you to provide sufficient justification.

Join one of the aforementioned clubs - make it easier for them to say "yes" to you. Leave any battles for when then try something genuinely unreasonable.

[walesdave]

Mikaveli - thanks for the reply but I feel you're making the same mistake Gwent Police is.....

Guidance IS NOT LAW. The police do not make laws...that's for Parliament and Judges who like to set precedent.

My reason for having a Section 1 shotgun is that I just blooming well want one...my Good Cause to justify my being granted the variation is belonging to a club which has the facilities to shoot a Sec 1 shotgun.

Sec 1 shotguns are no different to any other Sec 1 firearm, the justification is exactly the same. This entire UKPSA, 4islands, NRA membership cr@p is just so ACPO and the individual forces can grind us down.

I've been through this all before with Gwent Police during my initial grant, when I had to ask them if they wanted the IPCC to decide the difference between guidance and law. BTW: less than 24hours after asking them that question I got my FAC printed and collected - including a slot for a .44LBR, which Gwent (back then) also didn't do because of their own internal 'policy'.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm extremely on-side when it comes to the thin blue line, but I have a serious authority problem with people who think they're above Parliament when it comes to implementing firearms legislation.

[meles meles]

Well said, ooman...

[phaedra1106]

They are 100% WRONG on this.

Went through the same rubbish with Durham when we moved house in January. I already had slugs on my FAC for PSG/Target Shotgun with my club but when we moved they decided I had to be a UKPSA member, completely WRONG. It took 2 months and a couple of emails from my club (as apparently Durham had tried this before with them a few years ago) to get my FAC back with the exact same conditions that were on it when it went in.

The conditions state,

"The 12 bore Shot Guns/ Solid Slug shall be used for practical target shooting:-
a. on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet
any injury or damage claim.

or

b. over a course of fire approved by a qualified member of the UKPSA on land over which the holder has lawful
authority to shoot."

In my case the club have both a suitable range and the club member who lays out the course of fire is a UKPSA member, that is all that is required to comply with both parts of the conditions, NOT me having membership of something I don't need or want.

[walesdave]

BTW: just re-read my last post and I want to make it really, seriously really, clear that I don't have any problem with any of the shooting organisations - UKPSA, 4islands, NRA, BASC etc. etc.

I probably would join at least one of them (have to say 4islands is probably the way I'd go) but in my own time and when I decide and not at the behest of an FEO. FYI: I don't think Gwent FEOs have ever heard of 4islands, he seemed a bit confused when I mentioned them....

[Polchraine]

BTW: just re-read my last post and I want to make it really, seriously really, clear that I don't have any problem with any of the shooting organisations - UKPSA, 4islands, NRA, BASC etc. etc.

I probably would join at least one of them (have to say 4islands is probably the way I'd go) but in my own time and when I decide and not at the behest of an FEO. FYI: I don't think Gwent FEOs have ever heard of 4islands, he seemed a bit confused when I mentioned them....

Do you have your own insurance policy to cover you for third party injuries? To me that is the main benefit of joining BASC.

[phaedra1106]

Insurance is available with with BASC but they don't provide legal expenses/cover as standard you have to pay a premium on top of your subscription. David from BASC has been posting about this on another forum,

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ ... insurance/

Best option for insurance and legal cover would seem to be with SACS, annual membership is cheaper than BASC and they offer a family discount which can be two adults living at the same address so father or mother + son or daughter works out a lot cheaper.

[Mattnall]

BTW: just re-read my last post and I want to make it really, seriously really, clear that I don't have any problem with any of the shooting organisations - UKPSA, 4islands, NRA, BASC etc. etc.

I probably would join at least one of them (have to say 4islands is probably the way I'd go) but in my own time and when I decide and not at the behest of an FEO. FYI: I don't think Gwent FEOs have ever heard of 4islands, he seemed a bit confused when I mentioned them....

But are you a member of a HO approved club which should be affiliated to the NRA?

Then you should be covered to shoot PSG.