Which box fed gun?

[breacher]

Thanks Breacher; now I'm even more confused! :)

How much are they ATM, and where to buy?

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[breacher]

This is it with 27" barrel.

And AR stock, 8 round mag ( I also have 5 round mags which I have converted to 6 round by sheer ingenuity )

Will post another once its shortened and braked.

[breacher]

Ok... Can you explain a little more? The veprs and saigas I've seen in use seem to be very effective and reliable...

I have a Vepr12 and absolutely love it !!

It is simply a scaled up AK light machine gun ( vepr uses heavier lmg receiver where saiga used lighter ak one )

It has the legendary ruggedness and reliability of the AK.

Yes its expensive compared to a Bora but the Bora only LOOKS the part. Inside is a system similar to any other budget Turkish shotgun. The Vepr uses the same design of bolt, carrier, gas piston, gas tube as the AK. It also uses the same trigger group and receiver etc.

Comparing a Vepr to a Bora is like comparing apples and pears.

How many NATO military forces have adopted or given the Vepr a NSN ? Quite a few - 6 at the last count. Russian forces use a short one for cqb room clearance.

I will be surprised if any first world military or police EVER issue the Bora !!

Buy the Vepr. Once you have had it and loved it for a few years you will see that the cost spread over those years is actually lower than buying cheap and replacing.

Regarding the barrel - yes at 27" it looks long but once in the shoulder you dont notice it. Bakances and points well.

There are already 2 rfds offering them cut down and a permanently attached brake at 24.5" - I am getting mine done next week.

Just out of interest, where do you shoot PSG?

I don't.

Tried it a few times ( before the Vepr 12 ) and found that it was more a test of reloading dexterity and speed than a test of accuracy - did not like it for that reason.

I do the slug matches at Bisley.

Shot with a semi auto shotgun based on an AK, its a great simulation of shooting a semi auto AK.

[Thorney]

What are you going to use it for, if psg then you'll need 10 round mags and reliability. Not wishing to cause offence but the fact that Spetsnaz use it or not is immaterial to me, I want it to go bang when I point it at a target in competition. I like all of them, but they all need fettling to some extent to perform, the bora needs some mag adjustment and mag well work and the saiga etc need a lot more (from what I understand from owners) but for me £1500 and a load of work is a lot of money for a psg gun. The bora is £500, needs £100 of work to make right for psg and so for me ticks all the boxes.

The saiga shoots softer than the bora mainly due to the difference in weight, the bora is a lot lighter and (for me) this weight works well in psg as your muzzle movement is faster, but I'm sure there are a yew saiga owners will complain at the kick and prefer the weight of the saiga so you pays yer money as it were. If you're getting one for looks/fun go with what floats your boat, but for psg I'd suggest trying both, they shoot very differently.

[techguy]

What are you going to use it for, if psg then you'll need 10 round mags and reliability. Not wishing to cause offence but the fact that Spetsnaz use it or not is immaterial to me, I want it to go bang when I point it at a target in competition. I like all of the, but they all need fettling to some extent to perform, the bora needs some mag adjustment and mag well work and the saiga etc need a lot more (from what I understand from owners) but for me £1500 and a load of work is a lot of money for a psg gun. The bora is £500, needs £100 of work to make right for psg and so for me ticks all the boxes.

+1

[breacher]

What are you going to use it for, if psg then you'll need 10 round mags and reliability. Not wishing to cause offence but the fact that Spetsnaz use it or not is immaterial to me, I want it to go bang when I point it at a target in competition. I like all of them, but they all need fettling to some extent to perform, the bora needs some mag adjustment and mag well work and the saiga etc need a lot more (from what I understand from owners) but for me £1500 and a load of work is a lot of money for a psg gun. The bora is £500, needs £100 of work to make right for psg and so for me ticks all the boxes.

The saiga shoots softer than the bora mainly due to the difference in weight, the bora is a lot lighter and (for me) this weight works well in psg as your muzzle movement is faster, but I'm sure there are a yew saiga owners will complain at the kick and prefer the weight of the saiga so you pays yer money as it were. If you're getting one for looks/fun go with what floats your boat, but for psg I'd suggest trying both, they shoot very differently.

What am I using it for ? See last post.

You want something that goes bang every time ? Well that's pretty much the main reason AKs are chosen - not for looks, ergonomics, accuracy etc - but for going bang every time

As to fettling - mine worked out of the box. No fettling at all. That's with slug ( coated comp slug ) not tried any birdshot. I will shorten the barrel but that's just looks rather than any functionality need.

I only mentioned the military users as they too like the firearm "to go bang every time".

[Thorney]

Breacher, no offence meant, the use of the gun I was referring to the op as psg was mentioned that was all.

My reference to military use is really down to the constant view that anything the military pick is the best possible when in fact the majority of the time they pick the best performing for the price not necessarily the best. Also, the bora is a new gun so it's no surprise that there are none in military use as their adoption of such things takes years if not decades. Again, not saying the saiga isn't a great gun, I've shot a couple and likened them, however both owners (who shoot psg) both said they had to invest hundreds of pounds into them to get the working right, however psg is a lot more stressful on a shotgun that TS (re loading, movement etc).

The bora isn't perfect by any means the length of the stock is long which may affect your choice, its light, some feel too light as the recoil is higher than with a heavier gun and in psg the mag choice/mag well interface needs some fettling to work but other than that it works extremely well.

My final point about trying them is valid I feel, they shoot differently, just because they are box fed does not make them similar in other ways.

[breacher]

None taken Fair point - the OP will be PSGing so that should be borne in mind when choosing.

And yes, the Bora is new and "untried" by the military / police but I stand by my opinion that when it comes to strength, hard wearing, fires every time, works with minimal cleaning etc, the AK platform is chosen for a reason and has proven itself.

Saiga v Vepr - different gas systems so maybe that's why mine worked out of the box ? Not tried the older Saiga so cannot comment.

Just as an aside, apart from the box mag facility and AR15 looks - is there any advantage to the Bora over any other budget Turkish shotgun such as the Hatsan ?

[Thorney]

Not shot a Hatsan so couldn't really comment, however as you say one is box fed and the other is not so not really a great comparison. Certainly thus far the action of the bora has been problem free for me, only issue has been mag related fortunately now sorted by using akdal mags and widening out the mag well. I've got a few parts to fit to mine awaiting me to sort customs payments so will put some pictures up.