Legality question

[Blackstuff]

It would be a pump. Can't get proper grip on forend -beacuse of short arms of mine- and with an adjustable stock LOP could be around 12" for me. Using junior stock on another gun at the moment... So, original qustion: length is measured from the shortest possible setting of stock? Yes or no? Read elswhere on a semi/pump with not fixed stock it is measured from end of receiver...

The short answer is, as already said, it would be measured on it shortest setting.

However, although it would come down to what your FLD's manager 'reckons' or even a court case, if the stock is easily removable without tools, and the gun can still be fired, it would be measured without the stock entirely (I was told this first hand by a HO firearms 'expert' when the GSG-5 came out and people started asking about chopping down the barrel). Another example of this is standard AR-15 collapseable stocks; you can remove the actual stock portion simple by pulling the lever that your press to adjust the length, therefore IMO the measurement would be taken from the end of the buffer tube to which the stock attachs. Although in fairness, the length difference between the shortest setting and just the buffer tube is probably only about an inch.

i.e. You can do this without tools, without permenantly altering the gun and in a matter of seconds:



I would say however, i have recently been shown a gun which is made by a reputable manufacturer, sold up and down the country, and has HO approval which appears to contradict this view, but i'm not complaining. I might even get one myself

[londonercsecse]

It would be a pump. Can't get proper grip on forend -beacuse of short arms of mine- and with an adjustable stock LOP could be around 12" for me. Using junior stock on another gun at the moment... So, original qustion: length is measured from the shortest possible setting of stock? Yes or no? Read elswhere on a semi/pump with not fixed stock it is measured from end of receiver...

The short answer is, as already said, it would be measured on it shortest setting.

However, although it would come down to what your FLD's manager 'reckons' or even a court case, if the stock is easily removable without tools, and the gun can still be fired, it would be measured without the stock entirely (I was told this first hand by a HO firearms 'expert' when the GSG-5 came out and people started asking about chopping down the barrel). Another example of this is standard AR-15 collapseable stocks; you can remove the actual stock portion simple by pulling the lever that your press to adjust the length, therefore IMO the measurement would be taken from the end of the buffer tube to which the stock attachs. Although in fairness, the length difference between the shortest setting and just the buffer tube is probably only about an inch.

i.e. You can do this without tools, without permenantly altering the gun and in a matter of seconds:



I would say however, i have recently been shown a gun which is made by a reputable manufacturer, sold up and down the country, and has HO approval which appears to contradict this view, but i'm not complaining. I might even get one myself

Exactly, there are similar guns on sale from reputable makers, RFD-s, same stock mechanism as AR-15, on section 2. They wouldn't sell it if it was measured without the stock, aka illegal...

[Blackstuff]

Exactly, there are similar guns on sale from reputable makers, RFD-s, same stock mechanism as AR-15, on section 2. They wouldn't sell it if it was measured without the stock, aka illegal...

It didn't stop Bob at Southern Gun Co selling S5 rifles

[saddler]

Exactly, there are similar guns on sale from reputable makers, RFD-s, same stock mechanism as AR-15, on section 2. They wouldn't sell it if it was measured without the stock, aka illegal...

You seem to be confusing manufacturers/importers & SOME RFD's with people that,

a. KNOW the law
and
b. Give a s***

The majority of the importers employ SALES STAFF - not shooters - and their SOLE motivation is SALES TARGETS = bonus reached/more freebies

If you recall that exam that RFD's must pass on Firearms Law, before being granted RFD status.....
Oops,silly me, no such thing...hence the absolute b0ll0x heard from some RFD/gun-shop staff & shop owners.
Want to know how to spot such offenders? One easy way - they're not a trade member on this site for one...
The better RFDs that HAVE the knowledge are the ones that have the better reputation & are well known (for the right reasons)

[londonercsecse]

It would be a pump. Can't get proper grip on forend -beacuse of short arms of mine- and with an adjustable stock LOP could be around 12" for me. Using junior stock on another gun at the moment... So, original qustion: length is measured from the shortest possible setting of stock? Yes or no? Read elswhere on a semi/pump with not fixed stock it is measured from end of receiver...

The short answer is, as already said, it would be measured on it shortest setting.

However, although it would come down to what your FLD's manager 'reckons' or even a court case, if the stock is easily removable without tools, and the gun can still be fired, it would be measured without the stock entirely (I was told this first hand by a HO firearms 'expert' when the GSG-5 came out and people started asking about chopping down the barrel). Another example of this is standard AR-15 collapseable stocks; you can remove the actual stock portion simple by pulling the lever that your press to adjust the length, therefore IMO the measurement would be taken from the end of the buffer tube to which the stock attachs. Although in fairness, the length difference between the shortest setting and just the buffer tube is probably only about an inch.

i.e. You can do this without tools, without permenantly altering the gun and in a matter of seconds:



I would say however, i have recently been shown a gun which is made by a reputable manufacturer, sold up and down the country, and has HO approval which appears to contradict this view, but i'm not complaining. I might even get one myself

Been in the shop again today, RFD said the same thing regarding it would be measured from end of buffer tube, for which You would need tools to remove like for a normal butt stock.