Demonic69 wrote:Would it be possible to use black powder and exceed the energy limits? If not then the answer is obvious. You can tell someone shooting BP vs nitro. Rather than chrono every shot to make sure nothing slips through it makes more sense to set one, easily enforced rule. Use Nitro with a shotgun slug, get banned, Simples.
that doesn't really work , triple 7 is a black powder substitute that gives roughly 30% more energy ?
and to calculate energy you need velocity and bullet weight neither of which can be worked out by the cloud of smoke when the gun is fired!
So can you tell if someone is using BP or Triple7? Would Triple 7 be allowed? Would Triple7 push a slug over the range limits?
Calculating the energy wouldn't be hard using a chrono and scales, but would only be useful if triple7 or other alternatives were allowed, couldn't be discerned from BP and could go over the range limits.
If you just stuck to the rules then I suppose there would be no problem, if you tried to be clever then you'd just get your range shut down, lose your mates and be branded a d!ck...
To my mind it's in the too hard to do box for the OP's range - surely to sh1t if it's under the range energy and velocity limits then it should be fine IMHO.
On that point if the OP doesn't know his own ranges energy and velocity limits then how can the OP even begin to fathom to what to load said cartridge with.
I'd go with this approach:
1. Find out what said range limits are
2. Check what commercial slug does - for eg S&B SSS - is 1345 fps, with 1735 ftlbs energy (about 350 fps under my range, but 1325 ftlbs over energy on mine)
3. If info from 2 puts you under the range limit, argue the point as a blanket ban on a poweder type is a little arbitary.
4. If info from 2 puts you over the range limit, argue the point that you can reload with a typical powder and get it under range limits.
5. If neither of 3 and 4 work out and there's much wailing and nashing of teeth, then you're going to have to work a load up with a BP or substitue.
It's a heavy pill so you need it going slow for eg:
S&B SSS weight is 432 grains, and at 1345 fps produces 1735 ftlbs energy so to get it under my ranges limits (475 ftlbs and 1710fps IIRC) then I'd need it going no faster than 700 fps.
So in summary - you're on a hiding to nothing if you don't know your ranges limits - also - it may be the case that smoothbore is exempt the calibre limit on your range - so it will be worth checking that also (for eg, mine is 454 Casull - but smoothbore .50 cannons are fine :-) )
ok, done a bit of asking, and ive been told its 1150 FPS limit. But don't know about the energy, so that isnt actually all that helpful.... but they are asking someone else for me.
i was also told that initially it was just a 'NO!' to shotguns being used at the range, but our club pushed and got BP slug shotgun to be allowed. and only this as it is essentially the same as using a blackpowder musket.
I just want somewhere to play with my pump :(
When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns
Doesn't your club host matches for the UKPSA etc? Get on the PSG circuit and you'll get at least a couple of slug stages a match? (and | or for a balanced response F4i - I'm a member of both).
Anyhoo at 1150fps a 432 grain slug will be circa 1270ftlbs - which is pretty much bang on energy wise to a 55 grain 223 at 3200fps.
So if anyone shoots factory 55 grain 223 on your range - then you're golden I'd say with a 432 grain slug at 1150.
If anyone shoots 180 grain milsurp out of a 308 doing circa 3000 fps then you're laughing as that's more like 3600 ftlbs and you could just shoot factory slug all day (were it not for this BP restriction).
nickb834 wrote:Doesn't your club host matches for the UKPSA etc? Get on the PSG circuit and you'll get at least a couple of slug stages a match? (and | or for a balanced response F4i - I'm a member of both).
Anyhoo at 1150fps a 432 grain slug will be circa 1270ftlbs - which is pretty much bang on energy wise to a 55 grain 223 at 3200fps.
So if anyone shoots factory 55 grain 223 on your range - then you're golden I'd say with a 432 grain slug at 1150.
If anyone shoots 180 grain milsurp out of a 308 doing circa 3000 fps then you're laughing as that's more like 3600 ftlbs and you could just shoot factory slug all day (were it not for this BP restriction).
er no, they dont. might be a different phoenix rifle club, the name does seem to be quite common.
we cannot use fullbore centrefire rifles at the range, only pistol calibre, smallbore and blackpowder. so no .223 or 308
Thorn is the Bedfordshire County Range
When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns
My club has a 350ft/lb, 2000fps limit, up to 44spl. "Pistol calibre" only outside of small-bore. We do shoot PSG matches but no slug rounds though. Sadly we can't shoot shotgun without a board member and arranged days due to noise.
I'm gonna ask about BP slugs, sounds like a good idea.
Demonic69 wrote:My club has a 350ft/lb, 2000fps limit, up to 44spl. "Pistol calibre" only outside of small-bore. We do shoot PSG matches but no slug rounds though. Sadly we can't shoot shotgun without a board member and arranged days due to noise.
I'm gonna ask about BP slugs, sounds like a good idea.
Don't you think BP shotgun or rifle makes a much nicer bang than nitro?? Or is that just me.
