HAMMERLI TAC R1

[Blackstuff]

It just only seems to be the M&P that evokes this “I’ve got x so y is junk” response. Odd.

This is going to get rapidly out of control but...it must be opposite day it thats true today! Almost without fail its the super-pretendy, 9lb, £2k .22 AR owners that chuck the derision

Thread locked in 3....2....

[Kungfugerbil]

Almost without fail its the super-pretendy, 9lb, £2k .22 AR owners that chuck the derision

Yeah, fair point. Maybe It should have said “Only in the field of straight-blowback semi-auto dressed-up-like-a-big-gun rimfires do you see it. Odd.”

[Maggot]

How though? Other than building up muscle, which surely would be more effectively achieved in a gym? None of the CSR i've seen is shot in the same way as you would typically use a .22 in for mini-rifle i.e. short duration, explosive stages. Wouldn't it be better for CSR to strive to make the rifle for that as light as possible, rather than go the other way?

Muscle memory has little to do with out and out strength (ala Gym) and everything to do with MCT (marksmanship conditioning training). I use one of the others (A Bradley BAR22) so it must be s*** then. The point of muscle memory is the transfer of conscious training to subconscious skill. How does it feel when my foot position is smack of for natural alignment standing, to then move to squatting and back. If I get it right the target shows.

I was helping a chap with an MP15-22 the other night, great little rifle, nothing to complain about but here's my point. I own 3 ARs. I use my BAR22 pretty much exclusively for CSR practice against representative targets. Yes, it is a semi auto so you lose a bit by not having to cycle (Time and disturbing the position) but otherwsie the BAR22 handles pretty well identically to the BAR15 and 10. If I could have had a straight pull I woudl have, but its a fun little gun for other stuff as well and being an AR in all but barrel and action, its well made.

Some weight, particularly in the standing is an advantage as it stablises the rifle. Anyone shooting High Power will be aware of weighting up fore ends. A well known top CSR shot picked up my BAR10 a few weeks back and nailed the target at 200 standing first shot, beamed ear to ear and just said "Why would you want and LMT when you can have that". No idea but the fact is the extra weight makes it a very stable rifle.

My BAR22 is shorter so comes on aim quicker, but as such it is also possible to go through the aim more easilly. It is harder to shoot well with than the 15 or 10.

I want to train with something that is not only as near as possible to my competition rifles, with the same parts, sighting system, feel etc as is possible.

So yes, muscling on is not what we are about, muscle memory is.

As an aside when I got my BAR22 the first thing I did was strip it or crap, odd grips, handles, torches, lasers and other performance items It soon weighed less than a lot of MP15-22s out there

[Sim G]

It may very well be that in the pretendy AR field, a rifle that doesn’t work is actually pointless.

Why would it not work? Many people have ‘Non-Smith&Wesson’s that work perfectly well for the use required of them. My MP5 facsimile has never - never - had a FTF or FTE in the time I’ve shot it and can comfortably put every single shot in minute-of-palm-of-hand at the range. That is working just fine.

Different folks, different strokes. It just only seems to be the M&P that evokes this “I’ve got x so y is junk” response. Odd.

Read what I posted again. Don’t substitute what you think I said. Likewise, you are the only one getting out of shape and using the word “junk”.

[Kungfugerbil]

.22 ARs fall simply into two groups. Smith & Wesson and everything else.

It may very well be that in the pretendy AR field, a rifle that doesn’t work is actually pointless.

Read what I posted again

The only person who mentioned anything ‘not working’ was you - in reference to the 20+ guns in the class that aren’t a Smith&Wesson. That’s clearly nonsense as people use many different guns on a daily basis - for many different purposes - and your priorities =/= their priorities

I’ve said before that I think it’s great that manufacturers are bringing out many different types of rimfire fun gun - more choice benefits everyone. I don’t for one second think my rimfire is the best, or that yours is the worst - I just celebrate the fact that we can choose all different shapes and sizes.

Vive la difference.

[Thorney]

I think it very much depends if you want to compete with it and at what. If practical mini rifle then the S&W is tough to beat and weight can be a factor as has been described but Ive seen some decent shooters with non S&W so it really is what you prefer. For the money is tough to beat.

[BamBam]

Has anyone seen anything more about this? It's called the Hammerli Tac R1 by Umarex. Full metal construction at £499 seems like possible competition for the ever-loved M&P 15-22, even if it has a non-functional bolt catch.

I can't find anything about it besides this video, so I'm curious to see how it compares to the 15-22.

Non tuneable trigger, skinny barrel inside a shroud, £50 for a 30 round mag and that lack of bolt catch would bug me.

[safetyfirst]

Has anyone seen anything more about this? It's called the Hammerli Tac R1 by Umarex. Full metal construction at £499 seems like possible competition for the ever-loved M&P 15-22, even if it has a non-functional bolt catch.

I can't find anything about it besides this video, so I'm curious to see how it compares to the 15-22.

Non tuneable trigger, skinny barrel inside a shroud, £50 for a 30 round mag and that lack of bolt catch would bug me.

ditto. For that money, I’d get a smith.

[Blackstuff]

How though? Other than building up muscle, which surely would be more effectively achieved in a gym? None of the CSR i've seen is shot in the same way as you would typically use a .22 in for mini-rifle i.e. short duration, explosive stages. Wouldn't it be better for CSR to strive to make the rifle for that as light as possible, rather than go the other way?

Muscle memory has little to do with out and out strength (ala Gym) and everything to do with MCT (marksmanship conditioning training). Agreed, but i didn't mention muscle memory, but i don't see how a 15-22 would be any different than any of the full weight guns as muscle memory, as you say is not about strength, its about doing the same thing over and over. Aside from a slightly shorter charging handle pull the 15-22 has identical controls and can be fitted with the same trigger, safety etc etc as a straightpull gun I use one of the others (A Bradley BAR22) so it must be s*** then. The point of muscle memory is the transfer of conscious training to subconscious skill. How does it feel when my foot position is smack of for natural alignment standing, to then move to squatting and back. If I get it right the target shows.

I was helping a chap with an MP15-22 the other night, great little rifle, nothing to complain about but here's my point. I own 3 ARs. I use my BAR22 pretty much exclusively for CSR practice against representative targets. Yes, it is a semi auto so you lose a bit by not having to cycle (Time and disturbing the position) but otherwsie the BAR22 handles pretty well identically to the BAR15 and 10. If I could have had a straight pull I woudl have, but its a fun little gun for other stuff as well and being an AR in all but barrel and action, its well made. At least you have some logic to your choice, when most full-weighters are bitching about 15-22's/why metal guns are better they rarely have such arguements

Some weight, particularly in the standing is an advantage as it stablises the rifle. Anyone shooting High Power will be aware of weighting up fore ends. A well known top CSR shot picked up my BAR10 a few weeks back and nailed the target at 200 standing first shot, beamed ear to ear and just said "Why would you want and LMT when you can have that". No idea but the fact is the extra weight makes it a very stable rifle.

My BAR22 is shorter so comes on aim quicker, but as such it is also possible to go through the aim more easilly. Wouldn't have that problem with a lighter plastic gun It is harder to shoot well with than the 15 or 10.

I want to train with something that is not only as near as possible to my competition rifles, with the same parts, sighting system, feel etc as is possible.

So yes, muscling on is not what we are about, muscle memory is.

As an aside when I got my BAR22 the first thing I did was strip it or crap, odd grips, handles, torches, lasers and other performance items It soon weighed less than a lot of MP15-22s out there