7.62x54R and .303 proofing

[Alpha1]

I put a wanted add in the wanted section asking if any one had any .303 reamers for sale and I got an interesting reply from Ovenpaa. So I am asking a question here in case the moderators don't think the post in the wanted section is appropriate.

7.62x54R and .303 head space gauges.

Ovenpaa wrote:
If you are thinking of using such gauges to check for Proof submissions they will fail. You will need CIP gauges manufactured specifically by Triebel or to the Triebel interpretation of the CIP standard.

I replied
Are you refering to the 7.62x54R gauges the .303 gauges or both.

Ovenpaa replied.
Head spacing by rim thickness for any cartridge is not acceptable when it comes to proof.

My question.
I would be interested to know how they proof them I have a set of 7.62x54R go and no go gauges they are Saami. If I was to get a barrel chambered using a Saami reamer and the Saami gauges does that mean I cannot get the rifle proofed.

[snayperskaya]

As far as I'm aware there is no SAAMI specs for 7.62x54r, only CIP specs.......

[Alpha1]

As far as I'm aware there is no SAAMI specs for 7.62x54r, only CIP specs.......

I think on checking you are correct. I bought a set of 7.62x54R go no gauges I was told they were Saami obviously they are not.
My intention was out of curiosity to use a .303 go gauge to check my Enfields I have had them at least 40 years and they get used a lot. I have had no luck finding a .303 gauge in the UK. I could get one from Brownills but its expensive I have bought stuff from Pacific tool and Gauge before but again its expensive and I am not sure they will still post to the UK.
I have recently renewed my ticket and asked for 7.62X54R I would like a sniping version and a standard battle rifle. I thought it would be use full to be able to check the headspace.
I checked Triebels catalogue and I think I understand what Ovenpaa is referring to they do a shoulder chamber gauge. I have not seen that type of gauge on any other manufactures list of gauges.
The price of stuff in Triebels catalogue if I am reading it correctly are jaw dropping expensive I suppose if you are in the trade it would make sense. The reloading dies look super dooper but no way could I justify buying any of there products.

Oh and I got a shot gun certificate for the first time actually I got a joint certificate so that's another learning curve Clay Pidgeon shooting and I guess I need some Shot guns to take part.
I was thinking of retiring this year but that's on the back burner. Need to buy guns powder, bullets, shotgun cartridges etc etc etc. hmm

[snayperskaya]

It is very rare indeedfor a Mosin to fail headspace, have a look at some of the discussions regarding Mosin headspace on the Collectors Forum - Mosin Nagant HQ on Gunboards.com

My made my headspace gauges to the Russian headspace specs that they have used since 1891 and every Mosin, and my SVD, that I've checked with them has passed with flying colours.

[Polchraine]

Oh and I got a shot gun certificate for the first time actually I got a joint certificate so that's another learning curve Clay Pidgeon shooting and I guess I need some Shot guns to take part.
I was thinking of retiring this year but that's on the back burner. Need to buy guns powder, bullets, shotgun cartridges etc etc etc. hmm

First thing will be a new 9 gun cabinet!


You say "joint certificate" - that suggests one piece of paper, is that right or do you mean co-terminus where an FAC & SGC expire at the same time and the extra cost is just £10.

[Alpha1]

Yes co-terminus this is the first time I have applied for a shot gun cert in the past I have only had the firearm certificate.

[Alpha1]

I measured the 7.62x54R gauges.
The GO gauge is 0.065
The NO GO gauge 0.073

I believe they are the correct measurements for the 7.62x54R.

[ovenpaa]

These days the rim thickness is a small part of the Proof for all rimmed cartridges, they will also me measuring shoulder datums and neck diameters.

[snayperskaya]

These days the rim thickness is a small part of the Proof for all rimmed cartridges, they will also me measuring shoulder datums and neck diameters.

But if you take the Mosin Nagant as an example you can have quite a variance in chamber/shoulder/neck diameters depending on where and when they were produced but the headspace should be consistent.Looking at my 1897 Tula M91 and my SVD, both of which are 7.62x54r, the chamber on the Tula is "quite generous" whereas the SVD chamber is quite tight in comparison but both headspace the same to the same spec, as would every other 7.62x54r chambered firearm including PKM and Maxim machine guns.

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but how does the shoulder datum of the chamber for a rimmed cartridge affect the headspace when the cartridge doesn't headspace on the shoulder?.The CIP data for 7.62x54r states that the cartridge headspaces on the rim, does the shoulder of an unfired 54r round even contact the shoulder area of the chamber?, taking into account the subtle differences in chamber and ammunition tolerances/dimensions across the multitude of manufacturers and timeframes.