The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

alextwogun wrote:So does anyone know how this works with guest days? My club has a guest day at the end of May and I was planning on taking a friend to shoot my guns supervised by me including my Sec 1 shotgun. I assume this is allowed in the same way he could shoot my sec 1 rifle?

wtfwtf Assume away

Am I to assume that you have a good lawyer? :cool2:

Section 1 shotguns are SPECIFICALLY NOT ALLOWED to be used by anyone not legally entitled to OWN a S.1 shotgun, by dint of FAC or RFD authority

CLUB GUEST DAY?
Gallery rifles, .22 bolt action & semi's, etc. = good to go

Which is what I thought hence my question in the first place!

saddler wrote:

alextwogun wrote:So does anyone know how this works with guest days? My club has a guest day at the end of May and I was planning on taking a friend to shoot my guns supervised by me including my Sec 1 shotgun. I assume this is allowed in the same way he could shoot my sec 1 rifle?

wtfwtf Assume away

Am I to assume that you have a good lawyer? :cool2:

Section 1 shotguns are SPECIFICALLY NOT ALLOWED to be used by anyone not legally entitled to OWN a S.1 shotgun, by dint of FAC or RFD authority

CLUB GUEST DAY?
Gallery rifles, .22 bolt action & semi's, etc. = good to go

Thanks for the animations.....and advice. For my own interest any idea's where I will find the written law covering this particular legislation?

alextwogun wrote:

saddler wrote:

alextwogun wrote:So does anyone know how this works with guest days? My club has a guest day at the end of May and I was planning on taking a friend to shoot my guns supervised by me including my Sec 1 shotgun. I assume this is allowed in the same way he could shoot my sec 1 rifle?

wtfwtf Assume away

Am I to assume that you have a good lawyer? :cool2:

Section 1 shotguns are SPECIFICALLY NOT ALLOWED to be used by anyone not legally entitled to OWN a S.1 shotgun, by dint of FAC or RFD authority

CLUB GUEST DAY?
Gallery rifles, .22 bolt action & semi's, etc. = good to go

Thanks for the animations.....and advice. For my own interest any idea's where I will find the written law covering this particular legislation?

Section 15(1) of the firearms act.

To be more precise, Section 15(1) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 as amended:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/45/section/15

I might be being somewhat thick this morning but I don't see any specific mention of Shotguns/LBRs/LBPs in the section quoted above. Namely -

[F115 Approved rifle clubs and muzzle-loading pistol clubs.

(1)Subject to subsection (4) below, a member of a rifle club approved by the Secretary of State [F2or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998)] may, without holding a firearm certificate, have in his possession a rifle and ammunition when engaged as a member of the club in connection with target shooting.

I assume this is the exemption which doesn't apply to Sect 1 SG etc.?

Mike

Thats right.

S1 Firearms Act 1968 says that you can't have a firearm (other than a shot gun or an air gun) without a FAC unless one of the exemptions applies. The above is the exemption that allows Club members to hold firearms without a FAC. As you observe, it doesn't mention anything except rifles (there is a clause further down S15 that makes it applicable to MLPs). Therefore, there is no exemption for LBRs / LBPs / S1 Shotguns. Therefore, you can't have one of those without a FAC.

Of course, if you can persuade a court that "rifle" includes anything with a rifled barrel, then the rules of precedence may override the rules of interpretation. Otherwise, the law says what it says, and this is an Act of Parliament, so what anyone other than Parliament or the Courts say about it is irrelevant.

Simples!

IainWR wrote:Mike

Thats right.

S1 Firearms Act 1968 says that you can't have a firearm (other than a shot gun or an air gun) without a FAC unless one of the exemptions applies. The above is the exemption that allows Club members to hold firearms without a FAC. As you observe, it doesn't mention anything except rifles (there is a clause further down S15 that makes it applicable to MLPs). Therefore, there is no exemption for LBRs / LBPs / S1 Shotguns. Therefore, you can't have one of those without a FAC.

Of course, if you can persuade a court that "rifle" includes anything with a rifled barrel, then the rules of precedence may override the rules of interpretation. Otherwise, the law says what it says, and this is an Act of Parliament, so what anyone other than Parliament or the Courts say about it is irrelevant.

Simples!

Hello Iain,

welcome back, is the advice in paragraph two the guidance you have been given but Surrey Police? Or have you not had time to raise this with them yet? If you haven't had chance to raise it the above guidance might be premature. If the above guidance is correct then there is at least one UK Police Force breaking the law!

I don't see this as being 'Simples' as one UK Police Force is issuing slots on LBR & LBP's to clubs and I assume the head of the licensing team would have gone via the HMO etc.

Ginger wrote:

IainWR wrote:Mike

Thats right.

S1 Firearms Act 1968 says that you can't have a firearm (other than a shot gun or an air gun) without a FAC unless one of the exemptions applies. The above is the exemption that allows Club members to hold firearms without a FAC. As you observe, it doesn't mention anything except rifles (there is a clause further down S15 that makes it applicable to MLPs). Therefore, there is no exemption for LBRs / LBPs / S1 Shotguns. Therefore, you can't have one of those without a FAC.

Of course, if you can persuade a court that "rifle" includes anything with a rifled barrel, then the rules of precedence may override the rules of interpretation. Otherwise, the law says what it says, and this is an Act of Parliament, so what anyone other than Parliament or the Courts say about it is irrelevant.

Simples!

Hello Iain,

welcome back, is the advice in paragraph two the guidance you have been given but Surrey Police? Or have you not had time to raise this with them yet? If you haven't had chance to raise it the above guidance might be premature. If the above guidance is correct then there is at least one UK Police Force breaking the law!

I don't see this as being 'Simples' as one UK Police Force is issuing slots on LBR & LBP's to clubs and I assume the head of the licensing team would have gone via the HMO etc.

I think there is more to this than has been discussed. I've seen non fac guests shooting black powder revolvers at clubs and these wouldn't be classed as rifles. Think i'll ring my force and see what they say.

My FEO told me I was ok to let others shoot my S1 shotgun on private land under supervision.