The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

This by in NO WAY a dumb question.

In the UK our firearms laws are confusing, complex, and - in this case - misleading.

The term "CALIBRE" is used on the forms and on the certificates, yet the definition of calibre is -
"The internal diameter of the gun barrel or bullet, expressed in hundredths of an inch." ( see: http://www.forensicsciencecentral.brave ... sary.shtml )

HOWEVER, to confuse the issue it has become the custom of police firearms licensing departments to interchange the term "Calibre" for "cartridge," and some have got to the point where they are refusing to allow dealers to sell .308 to people who only have 7.62 on their firearm certificates.
In effect, we now have to use the label for the cartridge (and some, like the 7.62/.308 have several different designations) in the space on the forms for "calibre" - and you can already see how confusing this has become!

Some firearms licensing department clerks have little knowledge or interest in the sport they administer, and they will get very shirty if you buy a 7.62 X 39 or a 7.62X53, when you've got authority to buy a "7.62" on your certificate; they automatically assume 7.62x51. This is of course ridiculous, as it is for the law to be written in clear terms - they shouldn't say "I didn't mean 7.62 X 39 when I wrote 7.62 on the certificate" as it's not possible to read the mind of the clerk who printed the certificate!

Many firearms licensing departments are using more sensible systems nowadays, asking the applicant exactly what they want, then labelling the cartridge correctly.

Just to confuse things still further, you would be legally correct in asking for a ".311" or ".312" (the calibre) when you want a ".303" The British military rilfe round for so many year.

Right - that's clear then ??!!?? :lol:

Good laws, eh?

In our area the chamber has to be fully specified. The days of just putting 30cal down seem to be long gone, I am after a 6.bowl something but not sure what yet, sadly I cannot apply for a 6.5 and then add the full details afterwards.

ovenpaa wrote:In our area the chamber has to be fully specified. The days of just putting 30cal down seem to be long gone, I am after a 6.bowl something but not sure what yet, sadly I cannot apply for a 6.5 and then add the full details afterwards.

That sort of interpretation hasn't made it's way up here - yet! In any case, if push came to shove, I would be using BASC to back up the definition and use of calibre rather than specifying a cartridge.

From the BASC Guidance on Firearms Applications

a) Calibre. The question asks for the calibre of rifle/pistol/shotgun, not for the name of
the cartridge. For example .308 & .223 rather than .308 Winchester or .223 Remington.
However due to the complexity of ammunition development, it is advisable to list the
specific cartridge designation e.g. .17HMR or .17 Remington as the difference in
performance between these two examples differ greatly, one is rimfire and the other is
centrefire. The police need to deal with the application with regard to the specific
ballistics of the cartridge e.g. for land checks and to ensure that what is applied for is
appropriate and in some cases conform to secondary legislation i.e. the ballistic
requirements contained within the Deer Act.

South Wales Police show both metric and imperial on my FAC for same weapons and ammo...eg 7.62/.308, 5.56/.223

Thet treat me well, no complaints...and they are thorough...with me and my club.

:)

A number of years ago in my area, they stopped issuing tickets with 7.62/308, 5.56/223, 38/357 and the likes in regards to firearms to be acquired/possessed, but will still allow it for ammunition.......????!!!

Pedantic is the word that comes to mind.

I got a very concerned phonecall from the FEO when variations for 25/20, 32/20, and 38/55 went in.....

I think our Sec puts in for variations for guns he knows are not on their computer...there is always a yarn going around about what he will request next.

:)

Yup cleared it up, thanks folks. I have applied for .308/7.62x51 so hope it will al be ok

CK

Robin128 wrote:I think our Sec puts in for variations for guns he knows are not on their computer...there is always a yarn going around about what he will request next.

:)

I like that! It appeals to my sense of "anarchy"!

I agree that there should be conformity with respect to the various firearms departments interpretation of the rules.

Some years ago I had the authority to possess a 7.62/0.308 calibre rifle. When I enquired about purchasing a 7.62x54R or anything else denoted as 7.62mm they said that's OK.

When I mentioned a K31 chambered in 7.5x55 Swiss they immediately stated that I'd require a variation for that despite the fact that the Swiss rifle is, for all intents and purposes, a 0.307/308" bullet diameter.

I mentioned that the 7.62x54R ranged from 0.311" to 0.312" and the 7.62x39, M43 cartridge is typically a 0.311" bore and the FEO got a little shirty.

I then said that there's a wide assortment of cartridges that are, in fact, 0.308", for example, the 300 Winchester Magnum, 300 H&H Magnum, 300 SAUM, 308 Norma Magnum, etc, etc. It was suggested that I don't pursue this any further.

I just wish that they all sang off the same hymn sheet.

lapua338 wrote:I just wish that they all sang off the same hymn sheet.

Personally, I would like to see just one police force take care of the administration of Firearms Legislation. I reckon it could be done as well.

We already have three "national" police forces, British Transport Police, MoD Police and Civil Nuclear Constabulary. Two of those forces are wholly armed as well, so there is not the paranoia associated ith firearms.

I don't know, what do you think? It's just something I've thought of for a while now, it may very well be what's need to standardise throughout the country....