The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

As a long time member of this forum I do not wish to see the kind of hatred displayed here that I have seen on other forums, and recently in the NRA letters pages, between certain parts of the UKPSA and splinter groups which quite clearly can not agree on anything.

You all know how to contact each other, either by email or by land line etc. If you have something to say, say it direct to each other. Your constant bickering over the years has done nothing but detract from the sport and in particular practical shooting, which as a result has seen people walking away from the discipline.

No one has the moral high ground.

Please keep it away from this forum,

DM

Concur, from the little I have seen and read on this it is not a pretty sight that covers none of the protagonists in glory and reflects badly on shooting in general.

Debate and disagreement is fine but when it gets bitter, personal and factionalised then it has no room here.

This thread has already been edited to avoid this creeping in and we want no more of it.

We are loathed to lock threads as robust debate is encouraged but if this or any other thread shows signs of going downhill then it will be locked.

Dangermouse wrote:As a long time member of this forum I do not wish to see the kind of hatred displayed here that I have seen on other forums, and recently in the NRA letters pages, between certain parts of the UKPSA and splinter groups which quite clearly can not agree on anything.

You all know how to contact each other, either by email or by land line etc. If you have something to say, say it direct to each other. Your constant bickering over the years has done nothing but detract from the sport and in particular practical shooting, which as a result has seen people walking away from the discipline.

No one has the moral high ground.

Please keep it away from this forum,

DM

clapclap

Could it be clarified then, who is the "National Governing Body" for Target Shotgun?

Is it:

a. The National Target Shotgun Association

or

b. The National Rifle Association

If its not (a) but rather (b) is (a) just a club?

Who writes the rule book and who is the focus for amending them if they need amending?

Depends who's matches you want to enter. As with all sports, there are plenty of 'governing bodies' all claiming to be the first/best/biggest/most important or whatever.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Personally, I am sick of the politics, back-biting and in-fighting happening in shooting sports.
I'll support whoever puts on interesting and well-run matches and if their rules are slightly different to someone else's then so be it.

Where are the matches held, I've shot target Sotgun at Bisley but would like to shoot them near to home.

However, if shooting at a national level where records are kept and medals given and champions named, for example the GR&P National Championships who makes the rules, (a) or (b) above. Or is it a case of my playground my rules?

The Cupcake Kid wrote:Depends who's matches you want to enter. As with all sports, there are plenty of 'governing bodies' all claiming to be the first/best/biggest/most important or whatever.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Personally, I am sick of the politics, back-biting and in-fighting happening in shooting sports.
I'll support whoever puts on interesting and well-run matches and if their rules are slightly different to someone else's then so be it.

THIS

...plus add in the HUGE proviso of having matches somewhere outside of the usual Watford-Gap "beyond here there be dragons"/Home Counties zone

Not seen much (er...ANY) provision for NRA Target Shotgun outside of the Bisley NRA HQ area - so it sort of falls back on the usual NRA arguments/sentiments/pro-NRA/anti-NRA camps...
Plus, not seen ANY publicity aimed at regional NRA club level to promote the sport & attract new blood

The folk that seem to attract the most flak here seem to be the ones that, in MY OWN experience, are the ones hosting regular shoots in locations far away from Bisley...

saddler wrote: The folk that seem to attract the most flak here seem to be the ones that, in MY OWN experience, are the ones hosting regular shoots in locations far away from Bisley...

Nothing down in the South West AFAIK, do we need two organisations for the same thing as I for one like to support the organisations I shoot with but could not justify joining the NTSA when already an NRA member. The driver might be a need to show good reason for a S1 Shotgun as UKPSA membership was required by some Constabularies but is not anymore in my area.

If there is a need to show good reason which one? Or does either satisfy the requirement?

John MH wrote:
If there is a need to show good reason which one? Or does either satisfy the requirement?

From the latest HO 'Guide on Firearms Licensing Law' Document.

"Chapter 13: Good reason to possess a firearm

Target shooting
13.46 Target shooting includes the use of firearms for sport and recreation. The Department of Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) recognises the organisation ‘British Shooting’ which brings together the national Governing Bodies for target shooting. These divide responsibilities for different types of target shooting as follows:
• National Small Bore Rifle Association (NSRA) - .22RF rifles and pistols, air rifles and air pistols not greater than .22 calibre
• National Rifle Association (NRA) – full-bore rifles, centrefire pistols and muzzle-loading rifle, pistol competitions not covered by the Muzzle-Loaders Association of Great Britain (MLAGB), section 1 (FAC) shotguns, .22 rifles (lightweight sporting rifles and mini-rifle), and long barrelled pistols /revolvers; and
• MLAGB - muzzle-loading rifles and pistols (including muzzle-loading “cap and ball” revolvers).
In Scotland sportscotland and the Scottish Target Shooting Federation act as umbrella bodies for target shooting.

13.47 Additionally, the National Rifle Association, the United Kingdom Practical Shooting Association, National Target Shotgun Association and the British Western Shooting Society govern various types of target shooting involving the use of shot guns, muzzle-loading pistols, long barrelled pistols and rifles.

13.56 Pump-action, self-loading and other types of shot gun may be used for ‘practical’ target shooting disciplines in which the shooter moves to engage a number of different targets. Applicants should normally be a member of a relevant organisation such as the National Rifle Association, the United Kingdom Practical Shooting Association or National Target Shotgun Association, either individually or as a member of an affiliated club. For ‘End of Trail’ shooting, a set of practical disciplines with a ‘Wild West’ theme, the British Western Shooting Society (BWSS) is the relevant organisation. In view of the potential hazards associated with the more extreme forms of practical shooting, the police will wish to consider with particular care applications for firearms for ‘practical’ shooting that falls beyond the examples cited above."

So, being a member of the NRA, UKPSA or NTSA should be good reason to possess a S1 SG. You also may be able to argue that if you are a member of an NRA-affiliated club, that would also suffice, but whether you could get that put in the wording on your FAC is another thing entirely as individual FEOs and forces still seem to make the rules up as they go along.

The point about the NRA being a 'National' body but seemingly not having much interest in organising events outside of Bisley Camp is a valid one which I think needs to be brought up with Andrew Mercer. However, if I lived further north I might simply decide it's better to join the NTSA and shoot their matches as they seem to hold more events up there.

Like I said, we all have a choice...

Nice to have a choice, as I'm already a member of the NRA all bases seem to be covered. What I would not do is participate in any events or competitions where there was a requirement to be a member of an additional association as that would seem to be a self satisfying requirement rather than a need.

As Target Shotgun shot at Bisley requires the individual to have a SSC Card as it’s a MoD Danger Area Range, are the NTSA able to issue SSC Cards (endorsed by the NRA as it's their scheme) for use on ranges North of Watford or are the matches predominantly shot on private ground and not MoD Ranges.