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"As long as she is with the FAC holder she can use the holder's firearms and will have to comply with any conditions on the FAC (regarding target shooting or pest control etc. ie not just killing animals, she can be a guest of the HO approved club or their member(s) and use the firearms there without being a member herself, clubs will have their own rules and regulations on things such as how many tims you can be a guest before you have to apply for membership."

I think you are mistaken. The guidance specifically mention that you must be a member of the club in order to take advantage of club exemptions from holding a firearms certificate. I think perhaps you are combining the club exemptions with the exemption under the estate rifle rule.

I forgot about miniture rifle ranges in my original answer. I might be good to note that not all small-bore clubs are registered as miniture rifle ranges in which case the usual rules regarding H.O. approved clubs will apply.

Guest days are really the easiest way to go if friends and family want to just try shooting occasionally and comply with the rather restrictive laws of the land.
On that point I have always been slightly curious about how the NRA have got around operating corporate days that I have seen advertised in the past as clubs are prevented from operating day membership schemes ( guests with FACs are slightly different)?

Mattnall wrote: The S11 exemption is only for those running and operating a miniature rifle range and the shooters are not using their own rifles but those belonging to the miniature rifle club or operator.

I'm not sure that's true - it is possible to read S11 (4) as applying to any miniature rifle at all, not just one belonging to the range operator. Do you have a case law reference that clarifies the point?

Chapuis

On the last point, legally guests are members of the club - it's buried in the interpretation of the HO rules on the subject, which specifically refers to "guest members" (which is the mechanism by which guests may take advantage of S15(1) F(A)A 88). There are exceptions to the ban on day or temporary membership, including competitions, guest days and so on.

There is no requirement to "register" as a "miniature rifle range" under S11(4) FA 68. The certificates issued by the NSRA (if they still do so - not sure) have no legal force.

One should be very careful about confusing the rules that clubs write (which can be whatever takes the Committee's fancy) with the rules set by the Home office for Approved clubs, and with the law under the Firearms Acts.

Iain yes I realise that club rules are often confused with legislation and that very often clubs actually apply more restrictive rules than the law actually requires. I take it that the rules to which you refer are the criteria by which clubs must abide in order to be considered for H.O. approval. You mention it's buried in the interpretation of these rules, I'm just curious how these have been interpreted as to quote part of the criteria -


[b]The club does not run a day or temporary membership scheme.

[/b]— The club does not have more than twelve (12) guest days a year. Guest members must be either members of a recognised outside organisation or people who are known personally to at least one full member of that club.

— Guests must be supervised on a one to one basis at all times when handling firearms and ammunition by either a full club member or someone who is a coach with a qualification recognised by the UK or National Sports Council. The club secretary must notify each guest day to the Police Firearms Licensing Department of the area in which the guest day is to take place, at least 48 hours in advance.


Now I can understand the concept of guests for the purposes of a competition because they would legally be able to possess firearms and ammunition either on the basis of their own firearms certificate or as members of a visiting club and shooting in conjunction with that club, but in the case of non certificate holders how can they be regarded as guests unless on an official open day. Our club has always played safe in that respect by declaring it an official club open day and informing our local Chief Constable.

In respect of certification of approval to be regarded as a miniature rifle club one club that I belonged to many years ago sought such approval from the Chief Constable and received certification back to that effect from him. The club though mainly a small-bore club was not affiliated to the NSRA but to the NRA and the purpose of seeking such approval was so that the club could open up it's range to the public and allow them to shoot when the sports club it was apart of held an open day.

IainWR

No case law just my interpretation of S11.
One thing though, there is no legal document to designate a miniature rifle club or individual, that's the beauty of it, although there are several entities trying to sell you one (NSRA for one at £15.00 per year)

My interpretation of S11(4) and S57(4) of the FA 1968 comes from the part where it says "the person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range" can acquire/purchase/etc firearms and ammunition, and then "the use by" any person "at such a range", is such at the owner/operator (individual or club) has to have possession of the miniature rifles in order for others to use them. If you (for instance) turn up with your rifle on FAC then it wouldn't be S11 as it is not possessed by the operator of the range.
Otherwise every .22lr target rifle would be a miniature rifle and exempt from licensing, so why do we even ask for permission to acquire

I run a S11 club and also run a S11 range (separate entities) and I wouldn't allow you to turn up with your 22LR (held on your FAC) to shot it. If you transfer it to the S11 club (or to me) then you would have to comply with any conditions on your FAC regarding this transfer.

I my be wrong but that is the way I do it and that appears to be fine. You may be able to read it the way you suggest but until I find out for sure then everyone will have to use the club's rifles (there's plenty of them available anyway).

ETA: we seem to have got away from the S2 shotgun theme of this thread, sorry.

Mattnal:

OK, I turn up at your miniature range with my .22". Legally, you can take possession of it with no paperwork at all. Legally, you can lend it to anyone at all. So, if me and my mate turn up at your range, what's the problem with my mate using my gun in a 3-way transfer?

Chapuis

You are missing one very important point. A FAC holder turning up at your club for a legitimate "open" event organised by the club is not a "guest" for the purposes of the Home Office rules. You as a club are permitted to let him use your facilities under the rules. If he is there to engage in target shooting as a member of his club, he may invoke S15(1) F(A)A 88 and borrow a gun. The "guest" rules are applicable to people who don't belong to HOA clubs and don't hold FACs. For those who are or do, the rules permit other paths. Now if your club wants to impose tighter controls, that's up to them. Just for completeness, because these are only rules set by the Home Office, not even secondary legislation, the Home Office can change / work round / amend them on a whim. That is the process by which the NRA runs its Open Days (where anyone at all can turn up provided that they satisfy some registration conditions) - we write to the Home Office and ask if we may do this in consultation with Surrey Police and under certain conditions, and so far they have said yes. They could say no without any justification and we would have no argument against.

Regarding S11(4): While it is good manners to ask (= tell politely) the Chief Constable that you may do what you are up to, there is no requirement in law to do so. In the business of avoiding a police state (see the drink-drive thread amongst others) it is most important that the police are kept aware of the difference between actions done in sensible co-operation and actions done in compliance with the law.

Iain I don't think I missed the point regarding a "guest " FAC holder turning up and shooting either as an individual on a regular day or at a organised competition, I may however have not made myself sufficiently clear, in either case it should not be a problem.

If we go back to the original question that was asked by 7.62 as I read it the question was to paraphrase it - "can a FAC holder allow his wife/girlfriend to use his firearms occasionally?"
Disregarding the slightly different situation in N.I. and also air rifles and shotguns. My understanding is that the answer would normally be No it would not be possible to possess a firearm or ammunition without holding a firearms certificate other than if- followed by the usual list of exemptions which normally apply to target shooting and the "estate rifle rule" in respect of sporting arms. e.g. cadet forces, member of a H.O. approved club etc. etc.

We agree that for various reasons there is no problem with a FAC holder or a member of another H.O. approved club from shooting. Or that a non certificate holder and who is not a member of approved club may shoot as a guest on an official guest day. Now the nitty gritty of the discussion comes down to what is considered to be a member of a H.O. approved club bearing in mind that approved clubs are not allowed to offer temporary or day membership. Also not forgetting that the club is required to notify the Chief Constable whenever someone applies for membership/leaves the club, and the outcome of any applications.


P.S.
The easy solution that was suggested early on in the debate as regards to the situation with 7.62 was that he take her to an official open day.