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If I could afford one and get over the way the barrel looks I'd get a Vepr, otherwise it's BR99 all the way for me

EDIT: Actually if I could sell my shares in unicorn sh!t I'd get a SPAS 15 but I don't think Bill Gates wants to sell his :lol:

Seen a couple of new saiga`s at the Bisley show today, £1400 & £1600, WITHOUT any extra`s !!

Blackstuff wrote:If I could afford one and get over the way the barrel looks I'd get a Vepr, otherwise it's BR99 all the way for me

EDIT: Actually if I could sell my shares in unicorn sh!t I'd get a SPAS 15 but I don't think Bill Gates wants to sell his :lol:

Always liked the USAS 12 better

Handled one a couple of decades back in a Welsh RFDs

It was NICE...

StangGT wrote:Ok... Can you explain a little more? The veprs and saigas I've seen in use seem to be very effective and reliable...

I have a Vepr12 and absolutely love it !!

It is simply a scaled up AK light machine gun ( vepr uses heavier lmg receiver where saiga used lighter ak one )

It has the legendary ruggedness and reliability of the AK.

Yes its expensive compared to a Bora but the Bora only LOOKS the part. Inside is a system similar to any other budget Turkish shotgun. The Vepr uses the same design of bolt, carrier, gas piston, gas tube as the AK. It also uses the same trigger group and receiver etc.

Comparing a Vepr to a Bora is like comparing apples and pears.

How many NATO military forces have adopted or given the Vepr a NSN ? Quite a few - 6 at the last count. Russian forces use a short one for cqb room clearance.

I will be surprised if any first world military or police EVER issue the Bora !!

Buy the Vepr. Once you have had it and loved it for a few years you will see that the cost spread over those years is actually lower than buying cheap and replacing.

Regarding the barrel - yes at 27" it looks long but once in the shoulder you dont notice it. Bakances and points well.

There are already 2 rfds offering them cut down and a permanently attached brake at 24.5" - I am getting mine done next week.

Thanks Breacher; now I'm even more confused! :)

How much are they ATM, and where to buy?

As Breacher said the Vepr uses a 1.5mm thick RPK receiver whereas an AK/Saiga has a 1.0mm thick receiver.Norinco in China,Valmet in Finland and Zastava in Serbia also use 1.5mm receivers in their AK variants.The 1.5mm receivers are even less prone to jams than a 1.0mm,which don't jam very often and when they do it is usually down to poor ammo, especially under sustained fire hence the use of the thicker receiver on the RPK lmg.

Is it only the Russians that make a 12gauge then?

I'd love a 12ga Valmet!

breacher wrote:

StangGT wrote:Ok... Can you explain a little more? The veprs and saigas I've seen in use seem to be very effective and reliable...

I have a Vepr12 and absolutely love it !!

It is simply a scaled up AK light machine gun ( vepr uses heavier lmg receiver where saiga used lighter ak one )

It has the legendary ruggedness and reliability of the AK.

Yes its expensive compared to a Bora but the Bora only LOOKS the part. Inside is a system similar to any other budget Turkish shotgun. The Vepr uses the same design of bolt, carrier, gas piston, gas tube as the AK. It also uses the same trigger group and receiver etc.

Comparing a Vepr to a Bora is like comparing apples and pears.

How many NATO military forces have adopted or given the Vepr a NSN ? Quite a few - 6 at the last count. Russian forces use a short one for cqb room clearance.

I will be surprised if any first world military or police EVER issue the Bora !!

Buy the Vepr. Once you have had it and loved it for a few years you will see that the cost spread over those years is actually lower than buying cheap and replacing.

Regarding the barrel - yes at 27" it looks long but once in the shoulder you dont notice it. Bakances and points well.

There are already 2 rfds offering them cut down and a permanently attached brake at 24.5" - I am getting mine done next week.

Breacher....PICS...

StangGT wrote:Is it only the Russians that make a 12gauge then?

I'd love a 12ga Valmet!

Valmet produce traditional 12g shotguns but not a semi in an AK configuration, thats the realm of Saiga (formerly Izhmash, now Kalashnikov Concern) and Vepr (Molot-Oruzhie Ltd).When I mentioned Valmet 1.5mm receivers I was refering to their version of the AK.

breacher wrote:

StangGT wrote:Ok... Can you explain a little more? The veprs and saigas I've seen in use seem to be very effective and reliable...

I have a Vepr12 and absolutely love it !!

It is simply a scaled up AK light machine gun ( vepr uses heavier lmg receiver where saiga used lighter ak one )

It has the legendary ruggedness and reliability of the AK.

Yes its expensive compared to a Bora but the Bora only LOOKS the part. Inside is a system similar to any other budget Turkish shotgun. The Vepr uses the same design of bolt, carrier, gas piston, gas tube as the AK. It also uses the same trigger group and receiver etc.

Comparing a Vepr to a Bora is like comparing apples and pears.

How many NATO military forces have adopted or given the Vepr a NSN ? Quite a few - 6 at the last count. Russian forces use a short one for cqb room clearance.

I will be surprised if any first world military or police EVER issue the Bora !!

Buy the Vepr. Once you have had it and loved it for a few years you will see that the cost spread over those years is actually lower than buying cheap and replacing.

Regarding the barrel - yes at 27" it looks long but once in the shoulder you dont notice it. Bakances and points well.

There are already 2 rfds offering them cut down and a permanently attached brake at 24.5" - I am getting mine done next week.

Just out of interest, where do you shoot PSG?