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Don't do Combat or practical, but got a Winchester 1300 Defender like this, 24.5" barrel with sights so it's Sec 2.

Pumps are usually cheap, this one came mint with two barrels for £100.

Just a fun gun, using it tomorrow on clays.

Blackstuff wrote:
Box mag guns are too unweildy to be used for fighting imo, wouldn't like to have to get in/out of a vehicle in a hurry with my BR99 with a 10rd mag in, even if i could lop the barrel down to just in front of the hand guard (although that would be SOOOOOOOOOOO nice....)

Is this better?, the Russians know how to do "weildy" shotguns


Would make a nice breacher!.

And slow apparently.

Sim G wrote:The SPAS 12 was a big, heavy, awkward, clunky and unreliable piece of kit that would have been long consigned to the bin had Hollywood not thought it cool.

I think the Vepr 12 would be better than the Saiga 12, if for nothing else than the mag change.

snayperskaya wrote:Is this better?, the Russians know how to do "weildy" shotguns


Would make a nice breacher!.

Vepr is a fun to shoot but I'll choose a Mossberg for combat.

Well we have used remi 870 wingmaster (police spec) for years in NI as well as a weapon for various tasks with SF and CP.
And then we bought the M4 for use in Afg as a point weapon for green zone and compounds.

Our Staff Sergeant had a Beretta pump in Angola. Really just for his own personal defence as limited range. Lighter than a service rifle and more effective than a pistol he always used to say.

My vote goes to the pump purely on it being less sensitive to the type of ammunition available.
If appropriate ammunition is guaranteed I would probably prefer the semi auto.

Going on with this...you have a "situation" jam, which is easier to clear,

Pump..short pumped/stroked situation jam
Semi...double feed
Mag feed...double feed

bofor wrote:Going on with this...you have a "situation" jam, which is easier to clear,

Pump..short pumped/stroked situation jam
Semi...double feed
Mag feed...double feed

Someone who knows what they're doing should be able to clear all of those in a similar time but from personal experience with those malfunctions i'd order them;

Pump - use the pump twice to first rack out the live cartridge with the uncocked hammer, then again to insert a new cartridge with a cocked hammer
Mag fed - Remove mag, cycle action, reinsert mag
Semi - Draw back cocking handle and hopefully tip out both cartridges, drop bolt and then recycle action (and press any cartridge/mag release button [or pull the trigger on the empty chamber] depends on gun)

I'd add the caveat that with the short stroke on the pump the person needs to be able to recognise what they've done wrong to be able to fix it, with the semi jams the gun tells you more readily. I've seen someone short stroke an entire magazine empty because he couldn't recognise what whas going wrong