Tenbury Guns closing Down

[Dark Skies]

As I understand it, gleaned from posts on other forums, the issue with the police revolves around deactivated firearms imported from abroad and whether they meet or have been made to meet accepted UK deactivation standards.

http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/v ... 69&t=84697

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/forum/french-d ... t1250.html

http://shop.tenburyguns.com/index.php?r ... path=10316

[zanes]

As I understand it, gleaned from posts on other forums, the issue with the police revolves around deactivated firearms imported from abroad and whether they meet or have been made to meet accepted UK deactivation standards.

When I saw this thread I did wonder if this is why they have been receiving attention....

[zanes]

Ah. Post number 4:

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.ph ... Sale-in-UK

[dromia]

As the fellow said 'kin hell!

[Dark Skies]

The Gunstar forum goes into it at length and to be fair the owner of Tenbury Guns makes a very persuasive argument - if you read all his replies. I don't know much about deacts myself - not my cup of tea, to me they're just pretty clubs, but I respect the interest others have for them. My feeling is if he was breaking the law you could bet your bottom dollar he'd be banged up and all his stock confiscated and his section 5 RFD pulled. That hasn't happened.

It seems a number of deactivated stock have been confiscated but that, and I'm filling in the blanks here (because I can't see any other info), the CPS aren't pushing for a prosecution because of the can of worms that might open - such as Tenbury Guns' argument being legally correct. Instead the owner seems to have been left in limbo - property taken but no opportunity to have his day in court except via very expensive legal action.

He takes a beating on Gunstar. Personally I think he's put his own liberty on the line for a cause he believes in and he might have had a bit more support than he has had from fans of deacts.

[zanes]

The bigger issue for me on the HMVF thread, putting aside arguments about the validity of his certificates/need for proof marks/equivalence of standards etc., is that work the certificate states to have been done has not been completed.

Similarly, I don't know a huge amount about deacts (though I have always fancied an MP40 for some reason ). But I'm very suspicious as to why Tenbury are the only S5 dealer doing this, and why what appears to be a fairly large facet of their business is quoted by someone claiming to be the owner as "not being worth the money".

[DanTheMan]

My feeling is if he was breaking the law you could bet your bottom dollar he'd be banged up and all his stock confiscated and his section 5 RFD pulled. That hasn't happened.

Exactly that, it's still legal to own and sell a pre 88 deact Bren with removable barrel as it can't be made to shoot a projectile hence the new Euro deacts are technically legal even if they are not deactivated to the current proof house guidelines.

[huntervixen]

The Gunstar forum goes into it at length and to be fair the owner of Tenbury Guns makes a very persuasive argument - if you read all his replies. I don't know much about deacts myself - not my cup of tea, to me they're just pretty clubs, but I respect the interest others have for them. My feeling is if he was breaking the law you could bet your bottom dollar he'd be banged up and all his stock confiscated and his section 5 RFD pulled. That hasn't happened.

It seems a number of deactivated stock have been confiscated but that, and I'm filling in the blanks here (because I can't see any other info), the CPS aren't pushing for a prosecution because of the can of worms that might open - such as Tenbury Guns' argument being legally correct. Instead the owner seems to have been left in limbo - property taken but no opportunity to have his day in court except via very expensive legal action.

He takes a beating on Gunstar. Personally I think he's put his own liberty on the line for a cause he believes in and he might have had a bit more support than he has had from fans of deacts.

Having had numerous conversations regarding their deactivations with employees of Tenbury Guns (very nice guys by the way) they have always been forthright and very open regarding the exact specifics of the deactivation and import process , their extra work and certification provided by themselves.

They have in the past, had meetings with the Home office representatives and individuals representing the Birmingham Proof House, all of whom agreed that what they were doing was OK.

If the Police or the HO thought they were contravening the Firearms act then they would have been closed down limitedly, not left them running for years!

The issue is this, the UK is a signatory member of CIP, now by being a member of this organisation, we agree to recognise the proof markings of the other (14 I think) members as acceptable in the UK.

So when say, a German company deactivates and Proof house marks it as such, we must except that "non" firearm as deactivated here in the UK.... Well here lies the issue, this is debated by the police and some in the HO, something has clearly happened that make the Police feel they can move in on them and effectively pull the rug by sizing his stock.

I would have thought the Company Lawyers will be pushing hard for charges (if any) to be revealed, or goods returned....to put up, or shut up so to speak.

Also deactivation specs aside, don't forget there is still provision in the firearms act for demonstrating deactivation "by other means", this could also be used as a defence, but you would need to ensure every single item of stock (and that's probably hundreds of deac firearms in Tenbys case) have been deactivated beyond any doubt, because they only need to find one tiny thing overlooked on one deactivated firearm to throw the book at you!

I sincerely hope this gets sorted out amicably and all involved can get on with their lives, I wish them all the best.

Ps, I find it laughable and deeply hypocritical that some RFD's out there (no one here) are putting the boot in with glee, when they themselves are happily selling firearms out of proof....a real issue