The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Ovenpaa wrote:HOI - I resemble that remark!

Then pick the bloody things up or this other bag goes to the 8 year old (actually it cant but that's not the point).

Maggot wrote:8x56R Steyr 1938 if you want one.

Live (oiled) primer and sealed (araldite round re seated bullet....stops the bloody oil leaking).

Sadly I have just given a load away to a colleagues son, but he's only 8 so he is not in quite the position we are to get hold of this stuff.

One tip, if people offer you rounds gratis, within reason, take them. This way you will have swaps, and will probably want to find period ammunition rather than modern PPU versions when they become available.

Also, unless you have a collectors ticket, watch out for AP etc. In some flavours its difficult to tell. Colour coding the tips has not always been the case and a magnet is no guarantee if the bullets are steel then plated or washed. I have been given many bits of AP/API etc that people thought were ball (one was happilly bunging AP down the range where it was a no-no. Not his fault as it was not obvious).

I have some nice early .303 that was put aside for Ovenpaa but as he cant be arsed to recover a bag of goodies I sent to an RFD near him over a year ago....he wont need them

So how did the guy that was shooting AP find out it was AP?.

Maggot wrote:8x56R Steyr 1938 if you want one.

Live (oiled) primer and sealed (araldite round re seated bullet....stops the bloody oil leaking).

Sadly I have just given a load away to a colleagues son, but he's only 8 so he is not in quite the position we are to get hold of this stuff.

One tip, if people offer you rounds gratis, within reason, take them. This way you will have swaps, and will probably want to find period ammunition rather than modern PPU versions when they become available.

Also, unless you have a collectors ticket, watch out for AP etc. In some flavours its difficult to tell. Colour coding the tips has not always been the case and a magnet is no guarantee if the bullets are steel then plated or washed. I have been given many bits of AP/API etc that people thought were ball (one was happilly bunging AP down the range where it was a no-no. Not his fault as it was not obvious).

I have some nice early .303 that was put aside for Ovenpaa but as he cant be arsed to recover a bag of goodies I sent to an RFD near him over a year ago....he wont need them

actually, you do raise a good point, I wasn't trying to be rude and turn ppl away, Its just I simply don't want to deprive others of the chance really as this is more designed as a bit of a reference library, but I am by nature a collector, so I'm sure it will evolve anyway into a refence collection by year, and manufacturer, and bullet weight ! I am open to everyones generosity :) But I am also not out to scam for freebies so i'd want to cover postage for those generous people at the very least

RE; the AP. how would someone tell it was AP if its so hard to tell, and what would be the implications? If someone were to send me something that was AP that neither of us were aware of, and it's sat in an inert, on the shelf, what would lead to it being identified as such?

AP- It can be a pain to identify however things like head stamp, meplat colour, packaging, source and comments like 'Bloody hell, is it supposed to do that' all help. I have some here that had to be sectioned to confirm what it was.

It is worth considering a cartridge collecting condition to your FAC at some point however the licensing departments do get a bit cranky about it as they are effective licensing you to hold an unlimited number of rounds even if it does say they are not to be shot.

ok, i'll have a word with the new FEO when I meet him, it's all a bit awkward at the minute as i'm between selling my flat and buying a house, so Beds have disowned me and Avon and Somerset want to 'meet' me. all the while i'm basically living in a B&B. fun! Can't wait to get my guns back.

For example Soviet/Russian Federation 7.62x54r AP has a black tip, API has a black over red tip, ranging Incendiary has a red tip and tracer has a green tip......but a 7N26 AP has no tip colour and is visually the same as a light ball round, a 7BT1 AP tracer is visually identical to a standard tracer round and a 7N14 AP Sniper round is again visually identical to a standard light ball round which no tip colour.
If the coloured coded tips wear off they all end up looking identical as the all have the same bi-metallic cases and the cartridge overall length is the same, the exception being tracer that has the T-46M bullet which is stepped. Bullet weights are all pretty similar (148-154grs) as well in order to achieve some consistency in ballistic characteristics across the range of different projectiles.

Useful site for anyone with an interest in Russian ammunition and firearms....

http://gunrf.ru/rg_patron_7_62x54_eng.html

There are a lot of resources on line as it goes.

There is a very good page about British military ammo (although sadly the chap writing it died). 762x54R is well covered as well. The International ammunition collectors site has a useful (but not totally comprehensive) guide to headstamps

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

Often, if you search for a round it will come up on their forum or on several others.

Watch out for the British ordnance collectors site, they got very snotty with me for showing an image of a pulled round with the powder. There was good reason for this, it was experimental and I was hoping that someone could help. The powder type, weight, and bullet details may have been important.

Had it been a donkey and a nubile blonde engaged in heavy petting I would have got the reaction....so I walked (and then some prat offered me silly money for said bullet....I told him to shove it after the reaction I got, Gollums, the lot of them. It was promised to Ovenpaa (and is either in my garage or in a bag with Mik Mak)).

How to tell, well there's colour coding provided you can track the details down. Dont automatically assume they will be black tipped, it depends on manufacturer, country it was manufactured for, what was specified (it might be unmarked with just the packaging marked). Could be the annulus, might be that the bullet itself has a second cannelure (lots of tracer has a second row of pips above the case crimp). It could be dual purpose but still contain a penetrator, or be experimental, or just had the colour rubbed off (watch it, I often clean mine down with IPA which will destroy some of the more modern dies, they are just like permi pen).

Often some of the bigger stuff wont be marked the same. TPTP is often sax blue but may not carry a red nose but usually just a "T" printed on it.

The AP at Bisley was marked with a W (Wolfram). In essence it would have done no harm and was more use to me in a collection as it was getting shot of (Scuse pun).

It was easy to miss as the first thing most people look for is a coloured nose, but .303 was not always marked that way.

IF you get one and pull it, sometimes an attempt to scratch the base (if there is no lead behind the penetrator) will give it away, and sometimes they are a bit longer to keep the weight and balance right.

In all honesty the average FEO wont have a clue, but you dont want them found if someone wants to make a point of it. For a long time I had no idea a portion of my collection was technically illegal. When I found out I handed them to an RFD mate to look after while I sorted the slot out.

Once my FEO saw the point, he was fine with it.

Many people dont realise that STANAG SS109 5.56 ammo (In the UK anyway) has a small steel filler in the nose, where the hollow would be on a match round. It is not a true penetrator, just something to either give it more penetration or allow it to tumble (with the back end being heavier)...who knows.....Take a file to one and you will see what I mean.

I am no expert and to be honest I am not that anal, but the way I see it is this. The bullet is the weapon if you like, the firearm is just the delivery method that is useless without the ammunition. I CAN collect several thousand rounds of inert ammo, I cannot collect (or even consider affording to collect) 1000 guns.

The background of the rounds are interesting as well. I have them from all over the world. Some are unmarked (or have had their marks removed), some were picked up by myself in Iraq. Its also amazing what people find and give you.

As I say, I dont like to buy the stuff because (and dont handbag me over this) the vast majority of it is rubbish. It was surplus, or thrown away. There are still vast amounts of the stuff about, but the gollums and idiots that will pay silly money for something mean that when they do turn up, they get hoarded.

I dont object 100% to paying a reasonable price, particularly when folk have brought the components themselves, but it does not seem right to spend the family income on what is, ostensibly, junk

I dont like to sell it either unless it cost me.

thank you, very informative, I can tell it may become a slippery slope :)

maggot, on your last point, I totally agree, anything that I get that I dont need will not be sold, have no fear. worse case, it will be given to friends, best case, it will be passed on to other budding collectors when they post something similar to me

If its any good, i have a few empty cases from 7.62x51AP.
I can do you inert 300blk, 357. 260rem and can give you a 338LM case

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