Match 54 Target Rifle - Weight Relief

[Lancs Lad]

How about an Anschutz Match 64?

These are a good bit lighter than the 54 but shoot great. There are a few advertised on Gunstar at around the £400 mark and they come with the same bells and whistles as the 54.
Excellent rifles for smaller - framed adults and youngsters with an easy transition to the 54 model if and when they feel up to it.

Regards

LL

[TattooedGun]

We do have a few BSA martini's but I believe they're the same kind of weight as the 1411's we have.
I do need to bring up the BSA 1215 that's my old mans, I believe that would be good for the youngsters, I believe that's what both myself and my brother learned on when we were a lot younger.

I'll look into the Match 64's also.

Just found a nice 1807 on guntrader that I've forwarded to the Secretary, just the fact it's in Kent is the kicker.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think we're on our way to getting the best compromise for cash verses suitability.

[dromia]

The bolt action BSA Century is a far better stepping stone to the modern rifles than the Martini's, it was specifically designed as a small bore bolt action club rifle.

[Pippin89]

We do have a few BSA martini's but I believe they're the same kind of weight as the 1411's we have.
I do need to bring up the BSA 1215 that's my old mans, I believe that would be good for the youngsters, I believe that's what both myself and my brother learned on when we were a lot younger.

I'll look into the Match 64's also.

Just found a nice 1807 on guntrader that I've forwarded to the Secretary, just the fact it's in Kent is the kicker.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think we're on our way to getting the best compromise for cash verses suitability.

I saw that one yesterday. It looks just the ticket for what you are after.

[Graham M]

Be careful when shortening the barrel. You will notice that some Anschutz barrels have a nice big bulge at the muzzle end. This isn't just to accommodate the foresight it also serves to form a very slight choking at the muzzle.
It could be argued that this is of no consequence, but it would seem a shame to ruin a barrel just to try and make it lighter. Some people say that this is a myth but I was told this by an Anschutz engineer at Bisley. If you do go down this route you could always fit an extension tube https://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/S ... sions.html but it's a bloody expensive route to go down. ( mind you, if you cut off the bulge you can't fit the extension tube)
Match 64 has a lighter profile and once the lads are in the sling (properly adjusted) the weight shouldn't be a problem.
BSA 1215... I bet that's a few year old. Didn't realise Dudley had youngsters shooting prone match rifle. Keep a hold on them, they are our future.

[hitchphil]

If you mess about with match 54s you will damage their ability to shoot accurately & render them valueless. Best to go on small-bore forums like Stirton & ask about for Match 64 (the biathlon barrel & action) & BSA Centuries. However young kids unable to hold a gun up shouldn't be shooting sling & glove? their bone structure is not ready for constant loads - best to get them to shoot match style with hand on a bag/rest & gun in hand. A sling is fine as its steadies the hold & over time & age tighten it up. In that config you can take the butt plate off & add weight to balance the rifle.

Couple tricks - when ready (stable position & trigger technique) get them to shoot with a scope, then iron sights & compare the groups - if they can shoot & their position / eye sight is correct, the irons sight groups will be smaller.

As they get older & age & bones grow - Gently tighten up the sling till taking the weight, let them shoot like that, take a pic & show them the bipod / rest was doing nothing! Have done this in the TR Skills course - we get a few recreational shooters wanting to improve their skills but not shoot 'Bondage TR' we say give it a go & gently tighten up a sling - one guy convinced he could never shoot TR shot a 49.6 with a 4-5Kg bi-pod one inch off the ground! - didn't believe it till he saw the picture. He got quite a buzz from it & now shoots TR.

If you are coaching kids get some qualified people or some experienced people qualified. It makes a difference having the wider knowledge base & skill set to coach & train. Afraid i have had some scouts & cadets who were taught sub-optimal position & technique & its harder to undo later on.

More than anything recognise in coaching kids make it fun & they might come back to shooting later on in life at cadets, uni, or even after the mortgage & their kids are gone.

[TattooedGun]

If you mess about with match 54s you will damage their ability to shoot accurately & render them valueless. Best to go on small-bore forums like Stirton & ask about for Match 64 (the biathlon barrel & action) & BSA Centuries. However young kids unable to hold a gun up shouldn't be shooting sling & glove? their bone structure is not ready for constant loads - best to get them to shoot match style with hand on a bag/rest & gun in hand. A sling is fine as its steadies the hold & over time & age tighten it up. In that config you can take the butt plate off & add weight to balance the rifle.

Couple tricks - when ready (stable position & trigger technique) get them to shoot with a scope, then iron sights & compare the groups - if they can shoot & their position / eye sight is correct, the irons sight groups will be smaller.

As they get older & age & bones grow - Gently tighten up the sling till taking the weight, let them shoot like that, take a pic & show them the bipod / rest was doing nothing! Have done this in the TR Skills course - we get a few recreational shooters wanting to improve their skills but not shoot 'Bondage TR' we say give it a go & gently tighten up a sling - one guy convinced he could never shoot TR shot a 49.6 with a 4-5Kg bi-pod one inch off the ground! - didn't believe it till he saw the picture. He got quite a buzz from it & now shoots TR.

If you are coaching kids get some qualified people or some experienced people qualified. It makes a difference having the wider knowledge base & skill set to coach & train. Afraid i have had some scouts & cadets who were taught sub-optimal position & technique & its harder to undo later on.

More than anything recognise in coaching kids make it fun & they might come back to shooting later on in life at cadets, uni, or even after the mortgage & their kids are gone.

There's more than I'd like to go into in this, suffice to say I find the vast majority of it condescending, you've clearly made some wildly inaccurate assumptions about our coaches and experience within the discipline.

[TattooedGun]

Be careful when shortening the barrel. You will notice that some Anschutz barrels have a nice big bulge at the muzzle end. This isn't just to accommodate the foresight it also serves to form a very slight choking at the muzzle.
It could be argued that this is of no consequence, but it would seem a shame to ruin a barrel just to try and make it lighter. Some people say that this is a myth but I was told this by an Anschutz engineer at Bisley. If you do go down this route you could always fit an extension tube https://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/S ... sions.html but it's a bloody expensive route to go down. ( mind you, if you cut off the bulge you can't fit the extension tube)
Match 64 has a lighter profile and once the lads are in the sling (properly adjusted) the weight shouldn't be a problem.
BSA 1215... I bet that's a few year old. Didn't realise Dudley had youngsters shooting prone match rifle. Keep a hold on them, they are our future.

I would imagine that more than "choking" at the muzzle it would be to do with barrel harmonics, since the bore of the rifle and it's rifling should be consistent down the length of the barrel, not removing the "bulge" when profiling the barrel would not add "choking" but the additional material at the end will alter the harmonics of the barrel.

The 1215 is quite old, the stocks been cut down and extended more times than I can remember as both myself and my older brother learned to shoot on it at age 11-12 or so.

Every year Dudley take on a group of youngsters whom are taught through the NSRA Junior Proficiency scheme with qualified coaches. It's a subsidised course so that it keeps it cheap for the juniors/parents to encourage them to keep at it.

[Graham M]

I would imagine that more than "choking" at the muzzle it would be to do with barrel harmonics, since the bore of the rifle and it's rifling should be consistent down the length of the barrel, not removing the "bulge" when profiling the barrel would not add "choking" but the additional material at the end will alter the harmonics of the barrel.

Not always the case. Many years ago I cut down an old Walther match rifle to 7 inches and one of the engineering lads at Halesowen cut a half inch UNF thread on it for me. Fitted a PH moderator and used it for rabbiting. Took rabbits well out to 80 yds with it. When they took our pistols off us in 96/97 my FEO told me to hand it in as it was now classed as a pistol.

Not long ago I sold my old Match 64 that my own son used when he was 14. He used it for over 25 years and all we did was extend the butt as he got older.
As I said, cutting a barrel down on a match rifle is sacrilege and really isn't necessary. As for short barrels; Anschutz brought out the 2013 originally as a 16" barrel and fitter it with an extension tube. It was primarily for the German market where they concentrated on 50mtrs. Didn't go down well here and was later fitted with the 1913 barrel (I have that 1913 rifle).
I'll be over there later this year for the County short range shoot. Maybe catch you on the day if you are there.

[TattooedGun]

I would imagine that more than "choking" at the muzzle it would be to do with barrel harmonics, since the bore of the rifle and it's rifling should be consistent down the length of the barrel, not removing the "bulge" when profiling the barrel would not add "choking" but the additional material at the end will alter the harmonics of the barrel.

Not always the case. Many years ago I cut down an old Walther match rifle to 7 inches and one of the engineering lads at Halesowen cut a half inch UNF thread on it for me. Fitted a PH moderator and used it for rabbiting. Took rabbits well out to 80 yds with it. When they took our pistols off us in 96/97 my FEO told me to hand it in as it was now classed as a pistol.

Not long ago I sold my old Match 64 that my own son used when he was 14. He used it for over 25 years and all we did was extend the butt as he got older.
As I said, cutting a barrel down on a match rifle is sacrilege and really isn't necessary. As for short barrels; Anschutz brought out the 2013 originally as a 16" barrel and fitter it with an extension tube. It was primarily for the German market where they concentrated on 50mtrs. Didn't go down well here and was later fitted with the 1913 barrel (I have that 1913 rifle).
I'll be over there later this year for the County short range shoot. Maybe catch you on the day if you are there.

Mixed messages...

"Cutting down a barrel on a match rifle is sacrilege"
"many years ago I cut down an old Walther match rifle"

We do with what we have to suit our needs. As it happens, these rifles will be staying in their original configuration and we're sourcing additional rifles, but the fact remains it would have been cheaper for the club to modify what we have to suit our needs than to spend thousands to buy exactly what we need.

In this case we have the cash as a club to spend the money to buy additional, more suitable rifles, but I wouldn't say it was sacrilege for anyone with a similar need, without the funds that our club has, to consider shortening the barrel or turning it down to make it suitable for the end use.

Provided it doesn't clash with other competitions, I should be at the County shoot