The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Dromia posted:-
"However the best route is to buy "M" die expander plugs to suit your bullet, first step should be 2 thou under bullet diameter, second step should be 2 though over diameter, the other main benefit of the "M" style expander is that it creates a step for the bullet to sit on thus ensuring it is seated square to the case and concentric to the bore."
And
"It should be obvious with a modicum of imagination and intelligence to see that forcing a soft lead bullet into a tapered neck will give a taper to the base of the bullet with all the attendant tragedies that will bring."

When the boolit is seated doesn't being forced through a step damage the base of the boolit as per your comments?

Reverting to the OP, I've had a reply from Lee Precision, confirming that the 30 M1 expander and powder through die will pull the stunt on a 30/30 case.
FWIW, I have a Lee universal expander and also a lyman M die, I don't use either any more, the lee expander powder through die does it better on 357 and 38 sp and hopefully when HK sends me the 30 m1 die it'll do good on the 30/30

how is a bottleneck case going to fit in a straightwalled die?

drone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 am Reverting to the OP, I've had a reply from Lee Precision, confirming that the 30 M1 expander and powder through die will pull the stunt on a 30/30 case.
FWIW, I have a Lee universal expander and also a lyman M die, I don't use either any more, the lee expander powder through die does it better on 357 and 38 sp and hopefully when HK sends me the 30 m1 die it'll do good on the 30/30

What does pull the stunt on a 30/30 case mean.
What does FWIW mean.
Who is HK.

Alpha1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:31 pm

drone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 am Reverting to the OP, I've had a reply from Lee Precision, confirming that the 30 M1 expander and powder through die will pull the stunt on a 30/30 case.
FWIW, I have a Lee universal expander and also a lyman M die, I don't use either any more, the lee expander powder through die does it better on 357 and 38 sp and hopefully when HK sends me the 30 m1 die it'll do good on the 30/30

What does pull the stunt on a 30/30 case mean.
What does FWIW mean.
Who is HK.

work / function with
for what it's worth
henry krank

Bradaz, the powder through/expander die is quite short, the long neck of the 30/30 goes far enough in for the expander tube to enter it and commence its process and includes dropping the powder when it's at the zenith of its upstroke. The depth of the expansion isn't that important, it's apparently adequate to start the boolit on its journey without risking spatulate finger tips, if you get my drift.
FWIW I find I can adequately neck size 30/30 cases FOR MY RIFLE using a 308 win Lee collet neck size die. They cycle fine.
BTW 10/10 for interpreting my shorthand!
To the pedantic police about, I tested my system before adopting it. I then quit using it as I found I could set the 30/30 full length resizing die to resize the neck only if I took my time about setting the depth the case entered the die and frequently checked the progress of the mark the die made up the neck of the case stopping adjustment when I estimated that the case neck was sized up to within a thou or two of the start of the shoulder, if you get my drift.
As a matter of interest I found that the case stretched almost 25 thou upon firing following FL resizing resulting in massive reworking of the brass to fully resize which, in my infinite wisdom, I deemed undesirable.

drone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:14 am When the boolit is seated doesn't being forced through a step damage the base of the boolit as per your comments?

Not at all so long as you get your measurements right.

As a rule of thumb step two diameter should be 2 thou under bullet diameter this hardly constricts the bullet but is usually enough to give good bullet retention, it is only 1 thou each side.

Also if there is squeezing the die being parallel sided means pressure on the bullet is even across its grip.

If a tapered expander is used then you will get a tapered base that will not have a uniform diameter across its shank thus leading to potential gas cutting, leading and inaccuracy.

If you have problems visualizing this then try both and see what works for you, you may be luck with the bullet. However an "M" style cut to the correct dimensions for your bullet remove the risk of taper deformation to your bullets shank.

bradaz11 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:13 am

Alpha1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:31 pm

drone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:22 am Reverting to the OP, I've had a reply from Lee Precision, confirming that the 30 M1 expander and powder through die will pull the stunt on a 30/30 case.
FWIW, I have a Lee universal expander and also a lyman M die, I don't use either any more, the lee expander powder through die does it better on 357 and 38 sp and hopefully when HK sends me the 30 m1 die it'll do good on the 30/30

What does pull the stunt on a 30/30 case mean.
What does FWIW mean.
Who is HK.

work / function with
for what it's worth
henry krank

Thank you.

Just in case you are still struggling in understanding this.

A tapered expander just expands the area around the lip of the case, if your case is say 3 or 4 thou under bullet diameter all the taper die will do is allow you to start the bullet in the case which will then be sized down by the area of the case case which has not been expanded.

The "M" style die being parallel sided is set to expand the whole of the case to the depth that the bullet is being seated so that the whole interface of bullet and case that 2 thou under bullet diameter.

A taper die cannot do this.

Pedantry is not misplaced when it comes to hand loading.

Considering the fact that every time we fire a rifle we are putting a pipe bomb off next to our face we cannot be too careful.

Especially with the spurious and dangerous myths and shite on the subject bandied about without any responsibility on this damned internet.

Knowing what you are talking about rather than people talking about what they think they know is crucial to safety in the activity, call pulling up in-exactitude pedantry if you will but ignore at your peril and worse still the peril of any innocents that may be shooting alongside you.