The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Laurie wrote:Correction to my last post - Gun-Pimp tells me the Bergara barrels are button-rifled. Wow - even better value!

Laurie,

I think Bergara is far away of Long Range shooting requirements.

-4140 (42CrMo4) steel. There is much better alloy grades in CrMo barrel steels offered by european mills...4140 very basic..however better than 416 + S.
-Offer nothing longer than 28''.
-Apparently, whatever the calibre, you have only one twist for choice (Like Henry For for his black model T)..
-I have been unable to obtain any indications on bore-grooves diameters. It seems that tight bore is a notion unknow for them and they stick to CIP dimensions (.300-.308 for .30 calibre).
-No mention of stress relief, just straightening of the blanks????.
-They are apparently cheap...are they worth anymore money?
R.G.C

Robert,

yes, there are many limitations to the Bergara specification, and I don't think of them as alternatives to a 'proper' 28-32" match barrel. What I hope is that they will fill the intermediate slot between factory heavy-profile hammer-forged barrels on things like the Remington 700 VS and PSS and those made by a specialist barrel-making shop for use in accurate sporting / tactical rifles. Feedback from the one gunsmith I know of here who has fitted a Bergara is good suggesting they should fit this need.

In my case, they meet a specific requirement. I have a 'bitzer' F-Class .300 H&H Mag rifle that Norman Clark built for me some years ago from his parts box - Winchester P'14 action modified for TR / MR with the 'ears' machined off etc., and with a match trigger, heavy Bishop MR stock, .308W Maddco 1-12"T Palma profile barrel rechambered with the long .300H&H, but not set back. The barrel is now nearly shot out after getting on for 1,000 rounds and I'd like to use this rifle to play with handloading the short .300 magnums, and with a bolt change to the M1917 version, .30-06. However, the rifle specification won't support the cost of putting a quality match barrel on, and I was going to scrap it until the Bergaras came along.

So I've got a 1-10" 26" Bergara at all of £165 plus fitting - If it doesn't work, it's not a disaster at that price. We'll see how it does in due course.

Changing subjects, I once found a website that had a long (15 or 17 pages) article by your good self on action design and development from the MAS36 with its inclined locking lugs through the Swing / RPA etc development story to the present day, but have lost the link. Can you advise it please?

Laurie

Laurie wrote:Robert,

yes, there are many limitations to the Bergara specification, and I don't think of them as alternatives to a 'proper' 28-32" match barrel. What I hope is that they will fill the intermediate slot between factory heavy-profile hammer-forged barrels on things like the Remington 700 VS and PSS and those made by a specialist barrel-making shop for use in accurate sporting / tactical rifles. Feedback from the one gunsmith I know of here who has fitted a Bergara is good suggesting they should fit this need.

In my case, they meet a specific requirement. I have a 'bitzer' F-Class .300 H&H Mag rifle that Norman Clark built for me some years ago from his parts box - Winchester P'14 action modified for TR / MR with the 'ears' machined off etc., and with a match trigger, heavy Bishop MR stock, .308W Maddco 1-12"T Palma profile barrel rechambered with the long .300H&H, but not set back. The barrel is now nearly shot out after getting on for 1,000 rounds and I'd like to use this rifle to play with handloading the short .300 magnums, and with a bolt change to the M1917 version, .30-06. However, the rifle specification won't support the cost of putting a quality match barrel on, and I was going to scrap it until the Bergaras came along.

So I've got a 1-10" 26" Bergara at all of £165 plus fitting - If it doesn't work, it's not a disaster at that price. We'll see how it does in due course.

Changing subjects, I once found a website that had a long (15 or 17 pages) article by your good self on action design and development from the MAS36 with its inclined locking lugs through the Swing / RPA etc development story to the present day, but have lost the link. Can you advise it please?

Laurie

Laurie,

It was on Laurie INGRAM's website and it has been deleted together with all shooting related matters from this site fter Laurie's death.

If you send me a PM with your Email adress, I will send you a copy.

Maybe Woody Rod could place it again in their Action Clear Website?

R.G.C

Robert,

I would love to have a copy as well.
Would it be ok to post it on the forum?

Robert,

Send it to me, I will get it put on our website, where it can be protected.

this whole discussion is why I come onto this forum!! Brilliant!!

I am sorry, but I joined the forum a little late for the above excellent discussion. However, one question, how does the hammer forged process relate to buttoned and cut Barrels? I once owned a Sako 25-06 TRG-S sporting rifle with a hammer forged barrel. (Excuse my ignorance, but I believe that the rifling is forged over a mandrel). This rifle in 25-06 was superbly accurate, for a sporting rifle. Norman Clarke rebarrelled it with a Krieger stainless sporting barrel in 6.5-06; it remains superbly accurate

ooh, a zombie thread...

Yes, hammer forged barrels are made by hammering them over a mandrel until they take up the form of the mandrel. The process is quick and, once the cost of the equipment has been borne, relatively cheap. For this reason, hammer forged barrels are often used for military rifles where large quantities of moderate to high quality barrels are required at reasonable cost.

A properly made hammer forged barrel made over a good mandrel can be of exceptionally high quality. If care is taken, and the mandrel carefully used, the possibility of having cuts, burs and scratches is virtually zero. With the correct post processing, there will be fewer problems arising from stress within the barrel. In addition, the use of a mandrel allows for quite tight tolerances on the rifling twist and form, and such things as progressive rifling are easier to make in this manner than by cutting or button rifling.

That said, there is no one process that is best. Carefully executed, all will produce good barrels. Hammer forged can be the lowest cost, and potentially the highest quality. I believe Tikka / Sako use hammer forged barrels on most of their rifles which is perhaps good testimony to the cost / quality ratio.

We've just found this clip of hammer forging at Steyr...

There is still a hammer forged barrel maker in Chesterfield just at the back of the Police station, I am trying to think of their name....