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As I understand it, the L1A1's are all UE/UB/UF/AD stamped, they weren't parts kits, the receivers were once part of a S5 rifle. The Sabre Defence IMBEL FALS were different, they were NEVER S5, they have new receivers and the serial numbers were from Sabre Defence, which is why the gas regulator and plug is intact.

The argument is there is no such thing as a S5 component only S5 rifles. This is only partly true, because a piston, piston spring and ported barrel will ALWAYS remain S5 components if they came from a S5 rifle. They offer no aesthetic advantage and can be used to convert the rifle back to S5.

Sixshot6 wrote:I understand better now. So if I get this right and this is what was the case with the Anglo rifle. The receivers came from parts. a new unported barrel was put in. All the S5 components were removed and only S1 components used. Is that what happened? I know that something made from the ground up is what is the thing with most firearms we see. But I just want an answer here.

HALODIN wrote:It's been discussed here many times, the L1A1's were working S5 rifles, they were NOT parts kits. Once S5 always S5 is very much the law, but if you jumble up loads of receivers and all the other components and as long as the same receiver doesn't end up with the same trigger group, bolt etc... then the "Once S5 always S5" rule doesn't apply any more. You still have S5 components, these are not allowed because they would transform one of these L1A1's back in to a S5 rifle, namely sears, pistons, piston springs, ported barrels and sometimes, gas blocks and regulators.

safetyfirst wrote:As understand, a section 1 firearm cannot EVER have been a section 5 or other prohibited firearm.

Ditto an upper or lower receiver from an M16 can't ever be used to assemble a UK legal section one rifle.

So if you find a load of L1A1 receivers that have never been assembled into a semi auto centre fire rifle then you can make a straight pull and sell it as section one.

The MARS and SGC guns are made as section one guns from the get go, they are never a part of an assembled section 5.

So taking a section 5 STV40 and converting it from semi auto to straight pull is against the law because some so moments of the resulting straight pull rifle were once components of an assembled prohibited section 5 firearm.

Is that mud any clearer?

So mix the parts and take away the section 5 components that would construe a semi auto and you have a section 1 firearm? Is that the order of things?

There was a bit more to it, ACR had to modify the bolt, the gas tube was cut, the gas regulator welded and the gas plug removed, but basically yes. When the home office gave approval for ACR's L1A1's they were concerned about convertibility, hence the changes mentioned above.

HALODIN wrote:There was a bit more to it, ACR had to modify the bolt, the gas tube was cut, the gas regulator welded and the gas plug removed, but basically yes. When the home office gave approval for ACR's L1A1's they were concerned about convertibility, hence the changes mentioned above.

Oh I see. So mix the parts, do all that and everything was i and t's crossed and dotted? Its a good thing they got it in writing. That was the advice I always got for anything firearms related. Get it in writing from the police or whoever. So what was the exact reasoning for the once a section 5 always a section 5 going after all this is done? Is it because the rifle is not the same rifle as before so not the until the last civil servant has been stalked and taken by the apes when they take over (who am I kidding they'd be the first to go once the people guarding them realized they were more of a liability) forever a section 5 rifle, but the process has resulted in manufacturing what is a whole new rifle?

The 1988 act was so poorly written, its unreal.

Interesting point on the imbel Fals, they were constructed as Sec1 rifles, but they did come with fully operational gas blocks, plugs and gas tubes .... And the first few did come with pistons too!

huntervixen wrote:Interesting point on the imbel Fals, they were constructed as Sec1 rifles, but they did come with fully operational gas blocks, plugs and gas tubes .... And the first few did come with pistons too!

I knew that was true. But it seems that regardless of what has been done, new section 1 rifles have been made from what used to be mixed up section 5 bits with some of the other mods mentioned and was passed in writing.

Guy Savage liked to push boundaries, but I've never heard this before... Is this hearsay or do you have first hand knowledge of this?

huntervixen wrote:.... And the first few did come with pistons too!

Well my SGC LRA9 was built as a S1 rifle, but when tested by the police turned out to be S5. The rifle languished in the police armoury for 7 months as Mr Clark refused to pay the S5 courier fee to get it back (allegedly £1500 ). Nor would he just send one of his employees up with their S5 authority to collect in person. In the end i had to contact the Home Office to get a letter for the police stating that if the rifle was simply split in two, each half would be considered S1 and two normal courier could each transport a half. When the rifle came back to me only the mech inside the lower receiver had been changed, it was the same barrel, upper, lower, bolt and furniture.

Am I reading this right.....if you half half a dozen Sec5 rifles, strip them down,mix the parts up, replace Sec5 parts with Sec1 parts (barrels etc, gas system permanently dieabled) and rebuild you then have a half dozen Sec1 rifles???.Doesn't seem right to me.

In principal yes. In reality only ACR's L1A1's have passed the test and others `could` be challenged in a court of law. I've posted the letter I got from the Home Office on this here (somewhere...)