SA80 " The Reluctant Rifle"

[Gaz]

Of course it is!

He's preparing a new book that'll suit you down to the ground - it has pre-sharpened crayons taped to the front

In that case, as much use as anything else he's written, then.....

How so?

[Mike357]

Allegedly, now one of the best service rifles, not available!

Providing your not one of these commie, weirdo, bat for the other side left handed types!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[honsu]

I wonder how long we'll have it for.

Our yankee brethren have had their ARs/M16/M4 since the 1960s/70s, and they don't look like they're going anywhere quick.

We've had the L85 since the mid to late 1980s, and in recent years we've upgraded it buy smashed it with a hammer and giving it to H&K and saying "please fix", and recently the new A2s, or A3s (if they're called that) have the new black 'n' sexy lookin' forends with accessory rails and vertical grips, which apparently cost £3k each!

I wonder how long it'll take the MoD to finally say, we need a new one. And even then, what to have? And what benefits would it have over the "new" L85s?

If they did change it would almost defiantly be an other bull-pup design so the Israeli Tavor would be a good choice.

As for the DD rail system it is the only way to fit the m203 to the sa80 I believe plus when the solider of the future project starts to be implemented in 2015-2020 the rails will also be used for the gun cameras that are linked to the solders HUD display in his helmet.

:flag5: zzzzom zzzzom

[meles meles]

We've used the A2 in combat and can't fault it in terms of reliability and accuracy. It's a short, handy rifle idea for modern mechanised combat (try mounting / dismounting quickly and easily from a Warrior with anything bigger) and it is also very handy in the souks and alleys of Arabia. Anything larger has to be raised to go round a corner, leaving the holder unable to fire instantly at Johnny Foreigner lying in wait. The same argument holds true in room to room fighting - the weapon is very quickly brought to bear. It's also pawy* with a bayonet fitted in the same circumstances - longer weapons are unwieldy in close confines.

Reliability is now excellent. We spent a lot of time in the Shat al Arab marshes. Sand, mud, 55 degree heat, 100% humidity. The conditions took their toll on the M16s of our 'merrykan partners but didn't cause issues for us. Quite a few Rangers tried to trade M16s for our A2s, no deals were done.

Accuracy has never been an issue.

Problems? Yes, stopping power at range, though that is down to the 5.56 cartridge and not the rifle.

The replacement ? Simply dust down the .280 EM-2 drawings and get it, and the TARDEN, into the front line pronto.



*handy, to you primates

[ordnance]

The sa/80 is now adequate after numerous modifications and millions of pounds spent on it. Nearly every part has being changed on it from the original.
Quote.1.The cocking handle was on the right-hand side, along with its ejection to the right means that the weapon has to be fired from right shoulder, problematical for left-handed shooters, as well as causing problems while firing from left of cover.

2.Weight – an SA80, fully loaded with SUSAT is just 80g lighter than the L1A1.

3.Balance problems – the bullpup design along with the position of the SUSAT sight, the use made of stamped sheet steel for the main body and nylon for the pistol grip and fore-grip makes the weapon butt-heavy, a factor that exacerbates the high recoil when firing on automatic.

4.High-sighting plane – the firer has to expose more of him or herself to fire over cover.

5.Hard trigger pull – has an impact on accuracy.

6.The position of selector switch and magazine release catch on the left-side of the weapon but away from the pistol grip means the firer could loose target acquisition if he needs to change magazine or the rate of fire. Also, the magazine release catch could be accidentally pressed when carried against the chest.

7.The sling cannot be used as an aid to shooting.

8.The shoulder-butt strap was configured to sit too high when the LSW was in the shoulder and served no useful purpose.
1.Bayonet – tip breaks, fails to stay on, the retaining clips on the frog fracture, wire cutter distorts if used to actually cut wire, sharpening stone falls off.

2.BFA – carbon build-up after firing causes problems in removal, leading to the screw being damaged when this is tried;

3.Bipod – does not stay in when in the up position, the retaining screw sometimes falls out;

4.Body Locking Pins – either seize up or fall out;

5.Bolt – erosion from gases around the firing pin hole, fails to close or function properly if dirt, dust or sand get into the locking lugs;

6.Butt – pulls out the retaining screws if pressure is applied via the sling to the rear sling loop;

7.Butt Strap – stop lugs break, making the item unusable.

8.Cleaning Kit – oil bottle leaks or cap splits, pull-through snaps or cannot be pulled through barrel, combination tool breaks or falls apart, brushes break or unwind or just inadequate to do the job, the rod 'T' piece fails to lock.

9.CWS – difficult to attain the proper eye relief when wearing a helmet.

10.Ejection Opening Cover (EOC) – breaks or freezes shut in arctic conditions.

11.Ejector – fails to work, works erratically, still occasionally ejects case into firer's face, and in arctic conditions it freezes and fails to work.

12.Extractor – sharp edges can cut brass from the case with the debris causing it to jam.

13.Firing Pin – springs can loose strength and allow weak strikes, the tip fractures after long bursts on automatic.

14.Functioning – ammunition fails to feed properly, rounds fail to eject, insufficient gas to cycle the weapon (especially in arctic conditions when locking lugs are fouled up), weapon fails to function unless spotlessly clean and well-oiled.

15.Gas Plug – carbon deposits make removal difficult and doing so sometimes causes damage preventing re-assembly and gas-system operation.

16.Guide Rod Assembly – spring weak, guide rods can distort or become loose.

17.Hand Guards – brittle (especially in arctic conditions) with no means of repair once cracked due to heat shield inserts.

18.HOD – fails to function and the button breaks off.

19.Iron Sights – fracture if struck at the right angle, while the retaining screw breaks.

20.Magazine Catch – fails to lock magazine when a full magazine is loaded, sometimes releases the magazine when the weapon is carried across the chest, in arctic conditions the magazine can freeze in place.

21.Muzzle Cover – no way of keeping it secured on the weapon, use in arctic conditions causes it to freeze to the flash eliminator and shrapnel effects if fired through.

22.Rear Sling Loop – distorts or pulls off the butt if any pressure is applied.

23.Sight Rail – inconsistent welding leads to failure, rusting occurs under the rail itself.

24.SUSAT – loss of adjusting screw lock nuts, loose sight clamp, range drum prone to jamming, eye lens prone to misting up and the rubber cap and front hood fill with snow in arctic conditions).

25.Top Cover – catch fails leading to the cover opening.

26.Trigger Mechanism – trigger fails to reassert when weapon set on 'R', the hammer stops distort and break, interceptor sear jams on hammer stud, safety sear does not always engage on the hammer fully or occasionally at all.

27.Sight Cover – too rigid with no method of retention.

28.Sling – plastic parts break.


Modifications Quote.1.A new cocking handle, made of shaped nylon polyamide, which doubles as a cartridge case deflector;

2.A new magazine, which is slightly longer, more curved and comes with a smoother spring feed action;

3.The LSW has a heavier barrel;

4.A new gas plug and cylinder made from superior materials;

5.The catch spring has been widened to prevent jamming in the gas feed during re-assembly;

6.The gas blowback cycle has been improved;

7.One-and-a-half locking nuts removed from the barrel extension / chamber to accommodate a different extractor shape, which should also guide empty cases away from the ejection port;

8.An all-new bolt head that has a larger, more robust extractor;

9.The cartridge ejector has a new rim and a stronger multi-wire spring;

10.The carrier has been polished to reduce the friction between it and the top-most cartridge in the magazine;

11.A new sturdier firing pin has been installed, made from high-strength, quenched and tempered steel, with the stop moved from the rear to the front;

12.The ejection port has been enlarged to improve the round ejection pattern;

13.The magazine housing has been reinforced with additional welding to prevent it breaking;

14.The weight of the hammer has been increased by 9g to prevent misfires caused by 'bouncing';

15.The bolt release catch has been strengthened;

16.A new recoil spring with a higher compression has been installed to even out the rate of fire.
"Industry experts also confirm that the UK MoD had considered replacing its entire armoury of 300,000 5.56 mm SA80 rifles with Colt M16 systems, prior to Heckler & Koch's (H&K) GBP92 million (USD179 million) revamp of the weapon in 2000

Apart from that its OK. PS No other country worth talking about bought it. I think some went to Jamaica. PS It is still to heavy poorly balanced and poor ergonomics and can only be shot right handed. On the list of worst service rifles given to any modern army.

[meles meles]

We contend the above scribe has never used an A2, or has no idea of how to look after one, or was taught poor weapons maintenance, or has no idea of the principles of marksmanship, or has no idea of the realities of physics, or all of the above

[ordnance]

We contend the above scribe has never used an A2, or has no idea of how to look after one, or was taught poor weapons maintenance, or has no idea of the principles of marksmanship, or has no idea of the realities of physics, or all of the above

What makes you think that. ? Point out what information that is on the post is wrong.

[saddler]

Foreign sales of SA80 to foreign armies = zero

Not the case for most other weapons systems...

[ordnance]

Foreign sales of SA80 to foreign armies = zero

Not the case for most other weapons systems

I think they give jamaica a few. The M /16 sold to around 50 countries for comparison. The SAS and other special forces use the M/16 then what would they know.

[tackb]

I'm gonna chuck my tuppence in as a civvie that's been lucky enough to try a few service rifles over the years (never in a life or death way thank god) the A1 was like the a2 , an accurate weapon but neither would inspire confidence in me that they could take abuse but then if I was to rely on either then it seems obvious to me that you care for it like your life depends on it ( if my life depended on any mechanical device then you can be sure I would love it like a mistress )

The long and the short of it is its the weapon our brave lads and lasses are issued with and those I've spoke to have all said its fine and the A2 is even more fine! And I guess they would no better than an armchair Waller like me ?