The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

tackb wrote:I don't get the civilian distinction ? How does it matter who fires it?

I would imagine its all part of a risk assessment, if the military are using it this is for an operational requirement, and therefore any costs etc. are covered by the crown, or insurances or even certain indemnities.
Civilian clubs are using it just for the crack, and although insurances are mandatory would they cover such claims, somehow I doubt it.
Just my 2d on it
I maybe a mile out

The only place I've witnessed accidents is at bisley , other than that I've only heard of accidents within the military ?

Maybe risk assessments should prioritise the biggest risks and leave the safest element alone ?

Just a thought?

tackb wrote:I don't get the civilian distinction ? How does it matter who fires it?

The military have a genuine requirement for tracer with civilians it's just something nice to use or try. The MOD will take all the necessary measures to reduce the risk whenever possible but there will be times when the risk is considered too great and even the military will denied the use of tracer ammunition.

But considering the fire risk is confined to a few days in (of?) "summer" then fine, no tracer from say June - September. In winter with snow and rain or frost I cannot see why this should be an issue. As said, civvies are safer than the military by all accounts.

A few rounds of tracer to see where the rounds are going when a scope is maybe suspect or shooting longer distance with iron sights saves a lot of time and ammo.

Ok sell your tracer to the Yanks, they need all the ammo they can get right now :lol:

As a lapsed NRA qualified RCO, who still regularly shoots on MOD ranges, I would say the biggest problem is Landmarc!
In my experience, the use of tracer was always decided on the day when conditions had been assessed.
The range limits for ammunition are clearly laid down and in my experience, civilian clubs always adhere to these for fear of being banned.
ukrifleman.

Chuck wrote:But considering the fire risk is confined to a few days in (of?) "summer" then fine, no tracer from say June - September. In winter with snow and rain or frost I cannot see why this should be an issue. As said, civvies are safer than the military by all accounts.

A few rounds of tracer to see where the rounds are going when a scope is maybe suspect or shooting longer distance with iron sights saves a lot of time and ammo.

Ok sell your tracer to the Yanks, they need all the ammo they can get right now :lol:

Not quite Chuck , I've actually attended "grass fires" on Christmas day and on occasions when there is still snow on the ground. Yes that was in this country and not in the southern hemisphere. It's really a matter of how dry the undergrowth or bracken is. A long period of drying wind even in winter is enough to get the conditions right for a wildfire.

I know what you mean about a tracer round will confirm that your sights are about right but the blinking things have a habit of bouncing off targets and going in all directions. It can be quite an education to see tracer binging around in all directions on the range.

Charlotte the flyer wrote:What does this mean?

Use of Non-Service Pattern Weapons and ammunition
which are not within the parameters laid down in the relevant range MoD Form 904 will not
be permitted.

Does anybody know what's listed in Mod Form 904.

In this context I think "Non-Service Pattern" just means rifles/ammunition in non-military calibres;

"Not within the parameters......" means in excess of the range limits on ME and/or MV. These are specified in the Range Certificate (904) and in the Range Standing Orders.

Chapius, I know - I've seen them fly all roads, kind of exciting but educational too. Why do we only seem to get red ones??

ukrifleman shows common sense, lost on landmarc.

I've only ever seen red or a sort of orange tracer but I suppose other colours are possible. These colours are probably considered the best for both day and night use by the military?
Seeing tracer bouce around sort of confirms why most military ranges have such large danger areas doesn't it. It also makes me wonder about fmj's pinging off at all sorts of odd angles also.

Blackstuff wrote:So you can't use them on field fire ranges either?! Feel sorry for anyone that has a load of tracer eating up their ammo limit, how can they get rid of it apart from pulling all the bullets so their no longer part of their ammo limit??

November 5th?