Gateshead Firearms Dealer 1980s

[Death2Ticks]

Rudi Seiber's barbers shop was in North Shields on a corner of the main shopping street and a side street (the shop window might have been painted red and the entrance door was right on the corner) and I was taken in there many a time in the early to mid 60s by my Dad who was also a shooting man. My old man bought a lot of stuff from him, which, when my Dad died passed onto me. Needless to say most of it had to be handed in when handguns and self-loading CF rifles were banned at various times. Rudi was just like all those Germans portrayed in the black and white war films that lads of my generation watched ... sort of cartoon characters with their classic take on the English language - "vee haff vayz av makkkin hyu jok!.

Laurie, I have no way if knowing what the various 'official' standards for conversion were back then but this tackle was being sold as I described earlier; perhaps, the screw protrusion on the inside of the selector plate had a spot of weld. As we all know the concept of 'permanently' converting a firearm isn't an exact science ... especially for those with even a basic set of machine tools.

[Laurie]

An interesting 'take' on this conversion issue was a conversation I had with the proprietor of my local shop at a time when the company was a major importer and retailer of surplus military rifles. A year or two before Hungerford, I was handed one of the converted WW2 German StG44 7.92X33mm rifles that the shop had got in from whoever was doing the imports / conversions. An interesting historical piece I though albeit a bit rough in things like the timber buttstock.

These were getting lots of coverage and advertising in the gun mags at the time, £350 if I remember right, same as a surplus US M14 or the best of the FALs. So I asked my friend is he was getting a lot in given their sales potential. No, he laughed, he'd only got this one to have look at it and a personal shoot. In fact he wasn't going to sell it as an S1, but have it deacted and sell it off-ticket.

I was really surprised as the business wasn't shy about selling semi-auto centrefires, in fact had only just before taken on a large shipment of 7.92X57 ex Egyptian army FN 49s - £100, I really wish I'd bought one and had at least one military self-loader to shoot before they were banned but hindsight is a wonderful tool.

The reason was simple, he said - he'd NEVER EVER sell a converted full-auto weapon. His rationale was that there is no such thing as a 100% guaranteed reliable conversion short of replacing the entire full-auto trigger group. If something happened that saw the police seize such a rifle, they'd move heaven and earth to unconvert it or 'prove' it would sometimes revert to full-auto operation. In that event, the customer would possibly go to jail, and maybe the vendor too, but in any event the RFD status was going to be revoked and he'd be out of business.

[huntervixen]

He'd also brought himself to the attention of them higher forms of life in Westminster, etc. by offering (legally) to sell ANY semi-auto gun as a S.2 shotgun (back THEN without any need to record the purchase on an SGC as they were of a different format) - so even stuff like 9mm Sten Guns & Uzi's were being punted out for a few notes extra as smooth-bore S.2 - then I also hear he'd offer the original barrel under the counter.


Ah, now that rings a bell, I remember back in the good old days, when the sun always shone, orange juice was bright orange, a pint of beer was 65p, everyone smoked, the internet hadn't been built and it was still all fields etc etc 1983 ish anyways..

Well, in ye olde Guns review magazine, there was a guy selling Sten Mk5 "shotguns"... must have been him I guess, queer looking things with enormous barrel extensions!

[huntervixen]

An interesting 'take' on this conversion issue was a conversation I had with the proprietor of my local shop at a time when the company was a major importer and retailer of surplus military rifles. A year or two before Hungerford, I was handed one of the converted WW2 German StG44 7.92X33mm rifles that the shop had got in from whoever was doing the imports / conversions. An interesting historical piece I though albeit a bit rough in things like the timber buttstock.

These were getting lots of coverage and advertising in the gun mags at the time, £350 if I remember right, same as a surplus US M14 or the best of the FALs. So I asked my friend is he was getting a lot in given their sales potential. No, he laughed, he'd only got this one to have look at it and a personal shoot. In fact he wasn't going to sell it as an S1, but have it deacted and sell it off-ticket.

I was really surprised as the business wasn't shy about selling semi-auto centrefires, in fact had only just before taken on a large shipment of 7.92X57 ex Egyptian army FN 49s - £100, I really wish I'd bought one and had at least one military self-loader to shoot before they were banned but hindsight is a wonderful tool.

The reason was simple, he said - he'd NEVER EVER sell a converted full-auto weapon. His rationale was that there is no such thing as a 100% guaranteed reliable conversion short of replacing the entire full-auto trigger group. If something happened that saw the police seize such a rifle, they'd move heaven and earth to unconvert it or 'prove' it would sometimes revert to full-auto operation. In that event, the customer would possibly go to jail, and maybe the vendor too, but in any event the RFD status was going to be revoked and he'd be out of business.

Some of the "semi" conversions at the time merely consisted of an inserted pin to prevent full auto being selected, the whole thing was very lax, truth is, if Hugerford hadn't happened, Semi Autos would probably been banned by now anyway, because of the lax general approach by some dealers at the time..

[Chapuis]

I remember Pat Walker winning the man v man at one of the last pistol meetings at Bisley using a Mk VI .455 Webley that he had converted to use full moon clips holding .45acp rounds. He was quite impressive to watch shooting and he proved what an old gun like the Webley was still capable of.
I also remember him flying down to Withybush in his private plane to take part in the Haverfordwest annual PP3 competition. (The airfield is right alongside the range.) I always wondered what happened to Pat as he seemed to just drop off the face of the earth.

I also remember some of the full auto conversions that many owned at around that time. One chap I knew collected Nazi guns and had in addition to various rifles and pistols a MG34 and a MG42 both converted to semi-auto only. Another chap had a Bren and a local school teacher that I knew had a Sten. Unfortunately the Sten if loaded with slightly downloaded ammo would shoot full auto because the bolt wouldn't go back sufficiently enough to be caught by the arrester.

Another RFD who went off the rails and whose name I cannot remember also did some work as a stand up comedian mainly in the west country. I remember seeing him on local television and I believe he was from Coleford in the Forest of Dean? I remember buying a pistol off him at an arms fair and then shortly afterwards seeing his photograph of television when he was convicted of selling sub machine guns off ticket to some very naughty guys on the platform of Bristol Temple Meads station. Can anybody remember his name?

[Death2Ticks]

Another great name from back in the day was Bill Walton (Captain Walton) who was a friend of my Dad in the 60s. I remember going with my Dad to the shooting range at Ponteland (Northumberland) in the mid 60s and Bill Walton turned up with a load of sub-machine guns - these were all fully functioning. These things were passed around for us all to have a go ... I'll never forget the experience of being taught how to shoot everything he had with him; I particularly loved the Thompson (I imagined I was Al Capone) and the worst was an Italian Franchi which on full-auto 'climbed' dramatically to the right and was a struggle to hold (I was only a boy, after all).

Captain Walton's claim to fame was he appeared on Tomorrow's World (BBC) with his bullet proof shield invention and was shot at live on telly. Go here to see part of the action (it starts about 1 minute in):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8252823.stm

[UK Armourer]

Well, here I am and lets see if I can clear up some myths about Pat Walker and his business Pat Walker Guns...
I was Pats armorer when he was in business in Gateshead (and later when he was working for Budge in Retford, Notts).
Yes, the shop was a bit shambolic but he was primarily a mail order business (wouldn't work in this current 'state'). And yes, I used to have to climb over crates of Galil's and Uzi's (we were the IMI agent in the UK) sometimes after a large shipment arrived.

But I must correct Chapuis in his facts:

1. Pat never had a private aircraft, he never got to that level of income ;-)
2. He never had a .455" Webley Mk IV converted to .45 ACP, he did however have a Webley-Fosberry in .455" that I made reloads for him. One of the memorable recollections I have of Pat and that fine pistol was when he accidentally discharged it in the shop and put a round into the wall... how we laughed (after our ears stopped ringing...).

I still talk with Pat regularly and although he does not deal in firearms any more his interest (and mine) has never waned.

I currently do a lot of research for various companies for their archives (the Institute of Military Technology in Titusville, Florida. Beretta in Gardone val Trompia, Italy. and I am currently putting together an internet TV channel that will debut with programmes filmed in the former Pattern Room Collection, in Leeds).

I really miss those halcyon years of shooting and collecting here in the UK which alas are no more in regard to the use and collecting of semiautomatic rifles and any type of full-bore pistols. I still get to shoot those types of firearms (and fully automatic too) but not in the UK... A sad state (!) of affairs really...

Cheers,

Vic

[Geordie bloke]

Vic. I did not know that Pat was still alive! I heard a rumour many years ago that Pat had a stroke and had passed away.
I did visit his 'shop' in Gateshead in 1981 (I think that was the year) just before I got my FAC for some information on a S&W revolver. He seemed a very pleasant man and gave me lots of information. I did see him years later on a tv programme around the time of Hungerford and the proposal to ban semi auto rifles.
Does he still live in the North East?
Thanks, Les

[UK Armourer]

Hi Les, Pat still lives in Nottinghamshire where he moved to when he went to work for Budge. He is doing OK after some health issues and has only recently become a Grandad! He's over the moon at that!

[UK Armourer]

I must also take issue with the post that 'Saddler' made i.e.

He brought in a load of fully auto .22lr AK's &/or PPSH Pietta things but was only supposed to be dealing in S.1 & S.2

bo...cks, PAT HAD A SECTION 5 LICENCE FROM BEFORE I STARTED WORKING WITH HIM AND ALL THE SECTION 5 'KIT' HE HAD WAS LEGIT AND RECORDED. HE ONLY EVER HAD 2-3 JAGER AK .22"'s AND Pietta Bingham PPSH 'A LIKE' .22"S AND THEY WERE ALL SECTION 1.....

Aside from that, he was doing MANY off-ticket deals; rumours I heard post-arrest/jail were that he'd supply anything in the shop without paperwork for an extra £50 or so...
Only went to his shop a couple of times as I never drove at the time - but it is the only time I've ever handled an FG42 - in his sale list at the time for £20K....THEN!! Of course, £20K was a lot of money back in 1983-4....

I heard on good authority that when the police raided his house they never found a thing out of place. Much head scratching & mumbling amongst themselves went on & backsides were for a grilling on the Station BBQ when they got back to base.
As they were leaving, one of them glanced upwards - the ceiling was a little saggy....all sorts of S.5 goodies & off-ticket kit in the ceiling voids!!

AGAIN bo...cks! THERE WAS NEVER ANYTHING S. 5 OR UNTOWARD FOUND AT HIS HOME, ONLY WHAT WAS LEGITEMATELY HELD ON HIS FAC!

He'd also brought himself to the attention of them higher forms of life in Westminster, etc. by offering (legally) to sell ANY semi-auto gun as a S.2 shotgun (back THEN without any need to record the purchase on an SGC as they were of a different format) - so even stuff like 9mm Sten Guns & Uzi's were being punted out for a few notes extra as smooth-bore S.2 - then I also hear he'd offer the original barrel under the counter.

PARTLY TRUE. BACK THEN AS LONG AS THE BARREL WAS SMOOTHBORE AND 24" IN LENGTH AND NOT FULL AUTO PRESTO! IT IS A S.2 SHOTGUN... PERFECTLY LEGIT... THERE WAS NEVER ANY 'UNDER THE COUNTER' BARRELS, ETC AS THE COMPANY WE USE TO CONVERT THE BARRELS (EXTENDED AND SLEEVED) WAS BAILONS IN BIRMINGHAM AND THE USED THE ORIGINAL BARRELS AND CONVERTED THEM SO THAT BLOWS THAT CRAP OUT OF THE WATER MATE!

He was basically a LOT of pending charges waiting to happen - sort of a legend - but for the wrong reasons: he seemed to appear out of nowhere & never lasted too long as he made the mistake of pushing things far too far & got burned as a consequence.

i WILL SAY THAT PAT ALWAYS WORKED TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND ALL HIS DEALINGS WERE LEGAL. PROBLEM WAS THE HOME OFFICE DIDN'T LIKE THAT HE (AND OTHERS) USED THE 'LETTER OF THE LAW' FROM L TO W AND AS SUCH WERE TRYING TO FIND ISSUES. HE FELL FOUL OF A FIREARMS LICENCING OFFICER THAT DIDN'T LIKE HIM AND WENT ALL OUT TO GET HIM.

I was at Pat's trial and they found him guilty of a lot of charges because a Home Office Expert (!) gave tainted evidence against him and the gun ignorant jury accepted what he said. It speaks volumes that the Judge spotted the problem and when he was found guilty on multiple charges that could have cumulatively put him away for many, many years he gave him the minimum sentence for all of them because he could see it was clearly wrong. Pat served less than a year... he was fitted up!