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Depending on where you live variations can take as long as initial grants - I'm seeing people on Facebook who have been waiting upwards of six months for even a one for one.
As long as your small bore club has facilities to shoot full bore then thats good enough for the Police. My club doesn't have its own full bore range but we book around eight days a year at Thorpe which is fine (our own range officers run those days).
Ask for as much as you want now - they can only say no :-)

kennyc wrote:
the most I have used in a day is 200 .308 and that was a full day ! so unless you are getting involved in days of competitions in a place where you can't buy ammo then I suspect you will struggle to justify such a large holding in these restrictive days.

If you shoot a series of competitions (like the Imperial SR Championships) you can shoot 100+ a day for 5 or more days. You'll want the ammunition to be all from one batch (or loaded at the same time) and not have to keep running to the Range Office to get more of what might be different batches.

Mattnall wrote:

kennyc wrote:
the most I have used in a day is 200 .308 and that was a full day ! so unless you are getting involved in days of competitions in a place where you can't buy ammo then I suspect you will struggle to justify such a large holding in these restrictive days.

If you shoot a series of competitions (like the Imperial SR Championships) you can shoot 100+ a day for 5 or more days. You'll want the ammunition to be all from one batch (or loaded at the same time) and not have to keep running to the Range Office to get more of what might be different batches.

that may well be true, however this is someone making an initial application, is it really reasonable to expect the FEO to authorise the holding of several grands worth of ammo to someone without some type of pedigree? if he becomes a county or International shooter then maybe , if he decides to shoot at the Imperial then I suspect batch will be the least important variable.

I wish this forum had a like button /|\

Very many thanks for the considered and helpful replies. There seems to be a wide difference of opinion on what to ask for and recommended holdings. The concensus however seems to be:

1. Aim for fewer guns on a first application.
2. Expect to be granted only what you can securely store. In my case, I'll be installing a 4/5 rifle cabinet with integrated ammo locker.
3. Ask for a maximum of 200 rds per calibre? My initial thoughts were based on what club members had advised so I'll go back and ask for the rationale behind this.

dromia wrote:

johnson3392 wrote:
My indoor club allows full-bore shooting with ammunition not exceeding a certain amount of energy ie, downloaded. Could a FAC be worded along the lines of 'may shoot using appropriate ammunition as approvd by xxxx club' ?

Why would you want your FAC worded like that?

Downloaded is a meaningless term, down loaded from what? CIP or SAAMI maximums? In that case most factory ammunition is "downloaded" as they are less than that. Ammunition is ammunition all that is required is that what you shoot is safe, legal and within the limits of any range certificate, that goes for all ammunition.

Don't overthink it and don't limit yourself now as once you start in earnest your views will undoubtedly change.

I didn't think this was meaningless. My club allows full bore shooting on the 25-50m range but not with commercial or factory produced ammunition. I will ask again what their range certificate allows but it generally means any handloaded/reloaded/downloaded ammunition up to that limit. I hope I haven't completely misunderstood this.

I"m grateful for the information given and it will give me another set of questions to ask when I next visit the club.

All the best,
David

If you are going for a 4/5 gun cabinet with a in built ammo safe then you only need ammunition for the 4/5 guns you are going to own.
For arguments sake lets say initially you ask for two .22 rifles then 1000 rounds of .22 is not unreasonable.
A .308 600 rounds is not over the top
A .357 underlever 600 rounds is not unreasonable.
A .303 600 rounds is not unreasonable.

Why ask for more when you have no were to store it.

I have just mentored a guy over the last eighteen month who had never even seen a gun before. I guided him through the probation period and made sure he got to shoot and become familiar with all kinds of firearms. I did one to ones with him on hand loading and answered all his questions. He is now a full member of our club and knows exactly what he wants to acquire. He is set up with all the reloading equipment he needs to hand load ammunition for all the calibres he wants to shoot. He has installed a monitored alarm all though he did not need it for the amount of guns he initially expects to acquire. A cabinet is being installed and I'm going through the fire arm certificate application with him. He is not the only one by the way we are a small club but he is one of two new members who have been given the same sort of introduction and we have another three going through a similar process. What I don't understand is guys who are going through the process of probationary membership keep coming on forums like this one and asking questions that they should know the answers to. I have to ask what sort of clubs are they and who are running them and supposedly taking these guys through a proper structured probationers training and I assume recording there progress and documenting how they are progressing in case the plod should want evidence of there competence.

Alpha1 wrote:If you are going for a 4/5 gun cabinet with a in built ammo safe then you only need ammunition for the 4/5 guns you are going to own.
For arguments sake lets say initially you ask for two .22 rifles then 1000 rounds of .22 is not unreasonable.
A .308 600 rounds is not over the top
A .357 underlever 600 rounds is not unreasonable.
A .303 600 rounds is not unreasonable.

Why ask for more when you have no were to store it.

What I don't understand is guys who are going through the process of probationary membership keep coming on forums like this one and asking questions that they should know the answers to. I have to ask what sort of clubs are they and who are running them and supposedly taking these guys through a proper structured probationers training and I assume recording there progress and documenting how they are progressing in case the plod should want evidence of there competence.

Thank you but I have to defend my club here. I am about to complete my 6-month probationary period and couldn't have had a better club to guide me. I have attended the club safety course and have a detailed shooting record designed specifically for the 'plod' that shows my competency and safe handling of all club rifles to include .22 single shot and semi-auto, .38/.357 rifle and LBR during my weekly visits. I have been encouraged all the way and established committee members (based on their relationship with Lancashire Firearms Department) now say it is time to apply for my FAC and will have no problem gaining it with their support and guidance.

I also have extensive experience of military small arms and full bore shooting during 21 years of Army service so I'm not a complete novice but this is my first foray into civilian shooting. You could certainly say that I should know these answers but it's nice to see the differences in opinion.

Are questions of this nature to be discouraged?

johnson3392 wrote:

dromia wrote:

johnson3392 wrote:
My indoor club allows full-bore shooting with ammunition not exceeding a certain amount of energy ie, downloaded. Could a FAC be worded along the lines of 'may shoot using appropriate ammunition as approvd by xxxx club' ?

Why would you want your FAC worded like that?

Downloaded is a meaningless term, down loaded from what? CIP or SAAMI maximums? In that case most factory ammunition is "downloaded" as they are less than that. Ammunition is ammunition all that is required is that what you shoot is safe, legal and within the limits of any range certificate, that goes for all ammunition.

Don't overthink it and don't limit yourself now as once you start in earnest your views will undoubtedly change.

I didn't think this was meaningless. My club allows full bore shooting on the 25-50m range but not with commercial or factory produced ammunition. I will ask again what their range certificate allows but it generally means any handloaded/reloaded/downloaded ammunition up to that limit. I hope I haven't completely misunderstood this.

I"m grateful for the information given and it will give me another set of questions to ask when I next visit the club.

All the best,
David

I am sure you are right in what your club allows, what I am saying is that downloaded is meaningless, as I said downloaded from what? to what? Most factory 308 for example will be downloaded from SAAMI/CIP maximum so technically eligible by your terminology but is still no doubt way over your range certificate limits . .38 Special ammunition is full bore but according to you above factory .38 special would not be allowed on the range even although some of it is very likely to be within the range certificate, I suspect that it is allowed on your clubs range if it is within the certificate limits. Such is the confusion caused trying to define the range certificate limits other than in the terms it is written, maximum calibre, maximum velocity, maximum energy.

There is no need to complicate things by adding definitions and terminology that is not helpful and confusing, your club sounds as though it does as we do and allow anything that is safe, legal and within the range certificate limits to be shot there regardless of whether it is factory or hand loaded.

All ranges have their limits even MOD ranges and all ammunition, handloaded or factory, has to be kept within those limits.

You are a member of a full bore club that allows you to use fullbore ammunition on its range, it is a given that it must be within the range certificate limits as not to comply will invalidate your insurance. No need for any thing different on you FAC for shooting full bore at your 25/50 yard range from shooting full bore on an MOD range.

Terms like downloaded/handloaded/pistol calibre/factory etc are meaningless and confusing when used as proxy definitions for using ammunition that has to be within any range certificate limits. Having such terms/"explanations" on an FAC is completely unnecessary and is very likely to bite you in the arse at some point.

This what I said in my original post, I didn't suggest that your club wouldn't allow appropriate ammunition for the range.

johnson3392 wrote:

Alpha1 wrote:If you are going for a 4/5 gun cabinet with a in built ammo safe then you only need ammunition for the 4/5 guns you are going to own.
For arguments sake lets say initially you ask for two .22 rifles then 1000 rounds of .22 is not unreasonable.
A .308 600 rounds is not over the top
A .357 underlever 600 rounds is not unreasonable.
A .303 600 rounds is not unreasonable.

Why ask for more when you have no were to store it.

What I don't understand is guys who are going through the process of probationary membership keep coming on forums like this one and asking questions that they should know the answers to. I have to ask what sort of clubs are they and who are running them and supposedly taking these guys through a proper structured probationers training and I assume recording there progress and documenting how they are progressing in case the plod should want evidence of there competence.

Thank you but I have to defend my club here. I am about to complete my 6-month probationary period and couldn't have had a better club to guide me. I have attended the club safety course and have a detailed shooting record designed specifically for the 'plod' that shows my competency and safe handling of all club rifles to include .22 single shot and semi-auto, .38/.357 rifle and LBR during my weekly visits. I have been encouraged all the way and established committee members (based on their relationship with Lancashire Firearms Department) now say it is time to apply for my FAC and will have no problem gaining it with their support and guidance.

I also have extensive experience of military small arms and full bore shooting during 21 years of Army service so I'm not a complete novice but this is my first foray into civilian shooting. You could certainly say that I should know these answers but it's nice to see the differences in opinion.

Are questions of this nature to be discouraged?

Not at all.

It is not wise to judge a forum on one post.

One post can say much about the poster but little about the forum.

Don't reduce the ammunition quantity you have applied for - the Police will do that for you if they feel the need.
Don't reduce the number of firearms you have applied for - the Police will do that for you if they feel the need.

Simples :-)

(I applied for a total of 1200 rounds of full bore and .22 - I was granted the lot despite not having any ammunition storage provision apart from the little locker at the top of my safe which might fit 50 .303 into it on a good day)