The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

TRG-22 wrote: principled stand?

[quote="Sim G"]

We know that S&W have refused to supply frame kits only. We know that S&W Performance Centre have refused to add an extension bar to previous models that featured a 12 inch barrel and S&W have refused to build a U.K. spec revolver.

When I asked Smith and Wesson afew years ago at the shot show. They said they would produce a UK spec section 1 revolver but minimum order would be 5000 and they would all have to be identical.
You would never sell 5000 here. You would have to give them away.
We have a small market

I'd not be surprised if there were small gunsmiths in the USA who would see a much smaller number as viable.

My god, has not this been done to death, two camps here, those who believe uk law extends to foreign shores, and those that believe uk law applies in the uk.

The argument for a "completed product, boxed" is then the finality of a products class i.e. Sec 1 or 2 is farcical.

Ruger could for example assemble a long pistol, but leave out the trigger group or even 1x screw (so as not complete) pass it along to a subby who welds a bar onto it (dunno why they couldn't do that themselves) passes it back to ruger they complete the assembly and ship it out to the uk as a fully s1, all because they withheld 1 screw b4 assembly,just to appease some uk cert holders who believe uk gun laws apply outside tge uk.

the running man wrote:My god, has not this been done to death,

As you said, done to death, +1.

the running man wrote:My god, has not this been done to death, two camps here, those who believe uk law extends to foreign shores, and those that believe uk law applies in the uk.

It's not a question of whether UK law applies elsewhere, it's a question of how UK law classes something when it is brought into the UK. UK citizens are free to handle, use, or own weapons abroad if they are legal there, no matter how illegal they would be if they were in the UK.

Imagine that the law here demanded that wine was sold in ½/1/2 pint etc bottles, and that the importation or possession of 37.5/75/150cl etc bottles, defined and described in the law as "metric bottles", was illegal. Such bottles would by definition be "metric" no matter where in the world they were, they could not be otherwise, but it wouldn't be an offence for you to buy one on holiday abroad.

The question would then become would the wine producer have to bottle the wine at source into 1 pint bottles for it to be legal here, or could a rebottling plant take the wine out of its metric bottles and rebottle it.

The argument for a "completed product, boxed" is then the finality of a products class i.e. Sec 1 or 2 is farcical.

I'm inclined to agree, and if that be the case it is clearly because the law is farcically worded.

Ruger could for example assemble a long pistol, but leave out the trigger group or even 1x screw (so as not complete) pass it along to a subby who welds a bar onto it (dunno why they couldn't do that themselves) passes it back to ruger they complete the assembly and ship it out to the uk as a fully s1, all because they withheld 1 screw b4 assembly,just to appease some uk cert holders who believe uk gun laws apply outside tge uk.

1. They probably could, and there would be absolutely no difference whatsoever between that gun and one which had been complete when passed to the subby. Hence the farce.
2. It's not a question of appeasing some UK FAC holders, it's a question of appeasing the powers that be.
3. Want more farce? AIUI (and I might be wrong) if a S1 LBR has a handed extension rod, a S5 gunsmith is allowed to remove it and replace it with one of the other hand. At the point of removal, doesn't the gun become a S5 prohibited one?

Mattnall wrote:

the running man wrote:My god, has not this been done to death,

As you said, done to death, +1.

Indeed, and I'm sorry.

I did start because of a genuine desire to get some understanding, but it seems that this matter surpasseth all such, and to paraphrase the words of the old Zorkgame "you are in a maze of circular discussions, all the same".

TRG-22 wrote:

[*]Want more farce? AIUI (and I might be wrong) if a S1 LBR has a handed extension rod, a S5 gunsmith is allowed to remove it and replace it with one of the other hand. At the point of removal, doesn't the gun become a S5 prohibited one?[/list]

When Roger Francis changed the coat hanger on my Taurus he first took a timed and dated picture of the Taurus with its original coat hanger .

He then took another picture , timed and dated showwing the Taurus with the original coat hanger and the replacement rod attached .

He then took a final picture , timed and dated showing the Taurus with just the replacement rod .

As far as I know , thats how decent gunsmiths do things .

OK - I assumed that the old one would have to be removed before the new one could be fitted.

MistAgain wrote:

TRG-22 wrote:

[*]Want more farce? AIUI (and I might be wrong) if a S1 LBR has a handed extension rod, a S5 gunsmith is allowed to remove it and replace it with one of the other hand. At the point of removal, doesn't the gun become a S5 prohibited one?[/list]

When Roger Francis changed the coat hanger on my Taurus he first took a timed and dated picture of the Taurus with its original coat hanger .

He then took another picture , timed and dated showwing the Taurus with the original coat hanger and the replacement rod attached .

He then took a final picture , timed and dated showing the Taurus with just the replacement rod .

As far as I know , thats how decent gunsmiths do things .

So do you do the same when you take your 13'' barrelled 10/22 out of its stock to clean it..?

That would be exactly the same... you're taking a legal length firearm and making it shorter than the legal length, even though its temporary..