SA80 " The Reluctant Rifle"

[SevenSixTwo]

I'd stake my life on the A2 over any other service rifle, thank you ta.

[saddler]

I'd stake my life on the A2 over any other service rifle, thank you ta.

Back in the day for me I was trained on the L1A1...and owned an AR15A2

Happy to say the same for either rifle.

[ordnance]

I'd stake my life on the A2 over any other service rifle, thank you ta.

It is now after millions spent on it a serviceable rifle. But it has being a disaster from start to finish. Because it now works doesn't change the fact that it is to heavy purely balanced poor controls layout. And will go down in history as one of the worst rifles issued to any modern army.

[SevenSixTwo]

I'd stake my life on the A2 over any other service rifle, thank you ta.

It is now after millions spent on it a serviceable rifle. But it has being a disaster from start to finish. Because it now works doesn't change the fact that it is to heavy purely balanced poor controls layout. And will go down in history as one of the worst rifles issued to any modern army.

Agreed, it's certainly been 'notorious'! I personally don't have any issues with its ergonomics, balance or even weight though and neither do the vast majority of other serving personnel. It's just a tool. We learn how to use it, adapt to its shortcomings and crack-on. smile2

Sure it could be better ergonomically but I wouldn't trade it for anything else in existence right now.

[DL.]

Out of interest, does the book mention the confidence/reliability trials in Oman in which it handed the 'AK' (and other service rifles) their MRBF asses on a plate?

I had a copy of defence doctrine news or some similar publication, and the trials made for good reading.

My gripe is the forward assist. A whole aspect of weapon handling included because the A1 wasn't fit for purpose.
They may have over compensated on the A2, as one that I had about ten years ago had a return spring that was so strong the bolt carrier assembly wouldn't make it far back enough to take fresh rounds from the magazine - short strokes. Adjusting the gas parts to excessive cured it though.
Looking forward to the next time a jobsworth skill at arms instructor tells me to forward assist.

[Rearlugs]

I carried an A2 during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Despite the improvements, it was still very prone to jamming in the desert conditions. I carried everywhere in a bin bag, but it still managed to suffer jams in the bolt, safety catch and change lever - sadly just when I needed the rifle during a stand-to. I'm very experienced with all sorts of firearms, particularly in military operations in very bad environments (jungle- desert- arctic- etc), but I have to say this particular A2 did not respond to careful cleaning and protection. I would note that the official "fix" of slathering the rifle in oil could not be directly followed - as the Army failed to provide any rifle oil (or sufficient ammo, night vision, maps, GPS, bin bags, shovels, etc, etc). We had to make do with engine oil out of the Land Rovers.

About two days into the invasion, I came across a culvert containing the stripped and smashed remains of about half a dozen AKs. I picked up some random parts, and made myself a rifle. That AK then became my personal weapon, as vast amounts of magazines and ammo were available (the Army had only given me 7 rounds for my HiPower, and I could only obtain 20 rounds for the borrowed A2). Later on, I had a great range day and fired about 600 rounds out of the AK - mostly in "bursts of 30 rounds". There were only two stoppages: examination revealed that these were due to rounds where a fired bullet had been re-inserted into an empty case by some Iraqi squaddie!

They've now managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the A2, but it has to be said that the original base rifle really was very poor indeed.

[huntervixen]

Thanks for all the input guys, it's interesting to compare and contrast Rearlugs A2 field experience with you guys using the Rifle today.

You can only assume more A2 mods have been incorporated to help prevent ingress of Snow,sand etc into the working parts since the early 2000's.

It seems you chaps have had very different experiences ref reliability of the weapon.

Well, it's only taken 30+yrs to get right, still I can say with authority we won't make that mistake again.....but only because R.O.F Enfield and Nottingham are now housing estates, and we now couldn't design and manufacture a mass service firearm if our lives depended on it...

[Sim G]

we now couldn't design and manufacture a mass service firearm if our lives depended on it...

And one day, we might just have to.....

[Jnadreth]

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/we ... A80.html#q

I found this last week and forgot to post ....Give me a good ole SMLE anyday XD

[M99]

I carried an A2 during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Despite the improvements, it was still very prone to jamming in the desert conditions. I carried everywhere in a bin bag, but it still managed to suffer jams in the bolt, safety catch and change lever - sadly just when I needed the rifle during a stand-to. I'm very experienced with all sorts of firearms, particularly in military operations in very bad environments (jungle- desert- arctic- etc), but I have to say this particular A2 did not respond to careful cleaning and protection. I would note that the official "fix" of slathering the rifle in oil could not be directly followed - as the Army failed to provide any rifle oil (or sufficient ammo, night vision, maps, GPS, bin bags, shovels, etc, etc). We had to make do with engine oil out of the Land Rovers.

About two days into the invasion, I came across a culvert containing the stripped and smashed remains of about half a dozen AKs. I picked up some random parts, and made myself a rifle. That AK then became my personal weapon, as vast amounts of magazines and ammo were available (the Army had only given me 7 rounds for my HiPower, and I could only obtain 20 rounds for the borrowed A2). Later on, I had a great range day and fired about 600 rounds out of the AK - mostly in "bursts of 30 rounds". There were only two stoppages: examination revealed that these were due to rounds where a fired bullet had been re-inserted into an empty case by some Iraqi squaddie!

They've now managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the A2, but it has to be said that the original base rifle really was very poor indeed.

I find that quite interesting and a huge contrast, we hit the sand in August 90 with the L85 as was. We were told to run it dry, standard desert tactic as oil picks up the sand and everything stops!.
I never had any issues with mine save for breaking a susat. We had plenty of ammo for both our pistols and rifles.

Mike