The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

IainWR wrote:Hi Ovenpaa

There is no problem at all in legal / insurance terms using private rifles belonging to members, and in the early days that is exactly how we did MR. Legally and in insurance terms the open day operates on the same basis as a club guest day. The problem with private rifles is that we have been doing this for quite a few years now, the volunteers tend to be the same people year in year out, and they are understandably reluctant to be giving away 200 rounds worth of barrel life every 6 months. Also, for the more exotic disciplines (MR / F-class), private rifles tend to be set up for ammo that will hold a competitive group. Put Mil spec or even TR ammo in such a gun and it really isn't happy. The NRA does not carry stocks of the sort of ammo these guns use, and it is hugely expensive to buy, so to get any gain you find the volunteers having to bring the ammo as well. We can pay for the material cost (though even that is a bit eye-watering with some of the heavy bullets) , but recompense for the time and effort is more difficult, and entirely understandably, our volunteers have asked us to provide.

Iain

Iain, another thought - what happens to the NRA guns when they're not being used on the Open Days?

Could we spend some time with them well in advance and get them working right? Again I've no problem putting the time in and getting it right - the positive comments on here prove the effect we can have, so I would dearly love to be a part of making sure that the 20+% I estimate who didn't enjoy it, have a good time next time out.

I did use my own rifle for most of the afternoon, with the ruag ammo. Once I started with that all was well and I had happy customers throughout. it was the very clear unhappiness of the chap who finished + a rifle malfunction elsewhere that got my rifle on the firing point.

The only reason my rifle helped the situation was because I knew where the scope should be for 1K, so I could with about 5 shots get it in the v-bull. If we can get 1 MOA combinations of rifle and ammo, and a TR target, I think we can give everyone from novice to club shooter a good experience that gets them into long range shooting because we will have the reliability of gun that means we can add enough to their shooting to get them a score and shot plot which puts a smile on their face.

As an aside, it's the minority of shooters who were very unhappy, for sure. I think by and large, we did pretty well and most were pretty happy, but the perfectionist in me sees where we were weak and would love to do better.

My only other point would be that the markers were clearly exhausted from marking all day. Is there a way we could give them a changeover at lunch? Maybe work shifts from Century and swap them over? It's a tough task marking all day, so be good to find a way to make it easier for them.

Gaz wrote:Wasn't at the open day myself (was absorbing the sun on Siberia instead) but apparently the black powder pistol stand wasn't running this year? Shame if so - I loved that last year.

I popped upto Melville and there was tumble weeds blowing though :) Shame really I always enjoyed the old black powder.

my two penneth, it was an open day, people came to make sticks go "BANG" I think you are all getting too wound up in the minutiae of whether or not it was "F class" all you needed to keep the punters happy was a big black target, a set of rifles that could hit said black target and a quick turn over. a stand with interested people able to discuss the details of the class and some hand-outs would help. I stood alongside the queue while waiting to barrack Maggot and all most of them were worried about was the amount of time it was taking, they are not interested in the technicalities they just want to shoot at a 1000 yrds! full marks to all who turned out and helped and organised the event, but it is too easy to be too close to things, sometimes you need to step back a bit and stop knocking yourselves, you did a good job and you had a lot of interest from the punters, get them shooting ,then worry about whether they want to shoot F class

Kenny I totally agree.

The problem was this:

" a set of rifles that could hit said black target ". They couldn't, not all of them anyway. Fix that and you're laughing. Certainly the little technicalities aren't going to make a big difference.

Hi {L}

In between, the rifles get used for NRA training, NRA Shooting Club, Corporate events, Membership assessments, charity functions such as the shooting days we run for Headley Court and hire by the hour or the half-day to individual members and clubs. One of the issues is that we have more sights than rifles; we can put a target sight or a 10x Sightron scope on most of the .308" single-shot bolt action guns; we can put a 10x Sightron or a 4x scope on the AR15s depending on what you want to do; we can put a scope or a red-dot sight or straight iron sights on the gallery rifles; we can fit high, medium or low mounts to any of them including the four "proper" FTR guns; but we can't do all possible combinations at any time because we don't have enough scopes mounts and rails of each type.

Also, guns do break - the club / hire environment is not at all the way a gun you own gets treated, and all too often the gun comes back broken and nobody tells us and we don't / can't spot it before we hand it out again.

Issue 200 guns in an hour to 13 people, receive them back in a shorter time at the end of the day. Things will be missed. Sorry, but it happens. I could run a perfect hire / issue service. I would need another permanent member of staff at about £30k once NI pension and other overheads are met, additional staff at £60/hr for the open days, about £60k for guns, about £20k for spares and tools, another 5-figure sum for accounting software and on and on. We do this twice a year - the cost / benefit doesn't add up.

I absolutely agree we need to do better and that amongst the people who need to do better are me and my staff. But please remember that:

I have me and 2 staff. My responsibilities are wide-ranging and I only do Armoury stuff when I absolutely have to. Fred and Paul are rostered to provide the best service we can at the times it matters; I fill in when they are not available. We are organised to provide two staff on every weekend and one or two as resources permit whenever the ranges are open from 45 minutes before to 30 minutes after. That adds up to more than the 6000 hrs/yr that one should expect out of three staff. I have no budget for overtime.

All three of us on the Armoury staff are individual members of the Association - we are all on the same side as you the members.

yours

Iain
NRA Firearms Manager

Iain, thanks for the info. I absolutely understand that you are utterly snowed under - hence my suggestion of additional help with the rifles on Open Days coming from volunteers such as myself. So long as we can get some time with the rifles beforehand and some ammo to use for zeroing, I think we can get the rifles set up the weekend before, or a few days before depending on the availability of volunteers. We saw this time that given the problems which naturally occur, we need to allow a bit of time with each rifle to make sure they're going to work.

If you are happy with this idea, I see no reason why we can't help take the heat off you guys and then provide a better service to our Open Day customers.

Mr_Logic wrote:So long as we can get some time with the rifles beforehand and some ammo to use for zeroing, I think we can get the rifles set up the weekend before, or a few days before depending on the availability of volunteers.

This is exactly what we've been doing since 5 or 6 years ago. The discipline lead just needs to take the initiative and make it happen.

..

The two guys who did do this work for us were struggling with the ammo and rifle problems I think - just underestimated the time maybe. If we get more time and better ammo, and more people helping, I really think we can get this nailed next time. The organisation on firing point ran really well - we never had a major queue and I did not hear a soul complain about waiting time. TBH we did get it done pretty well - it's perhaps a bit pernickety of me to get so concerned about ammo and rifles. It's just because I'm sure we can absolutely nail this one next time round...

Well, I'm volunteering myself to zero for the May meet and help in whatever way asked. I'll be a member of BSRC and NRA as well I guess by then.

What happend with the Black Powder btw?

It has been popular in the past when I have been.