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Dark Skies wrote:

Mr_Logic wrote:Sorry Dark Skies, you can't have it both ways. Short siberia is a 100 or 200 yard rifle range; those facilities are provided on Century during the week. Benches are available for those who need them; it's quite common and our club always requests one. There is always one delivered. There is no stigma attached; worries about 'special needs' are unfounded - it's a non-issue. The pathways round from the Century short range bit to the butts are perfectly good, the additional distance is not great.

The money which has come in has helped Short Siberia immensely, and it is still available on weekends. The new portacabin toilets are also useful for the short range Century shooters, so we the community are seeing the benefits of this deal; it definitely IS in our interests, and the NRA has tried very hard to maintain all the facilities of Short Siberia but on Century. They are still very disorganised and that is still a right royal PITA, but this is not worth bitching about - just get on and enjoy it.

Weirdly the last thing that I ever worried about at Bisley was the quality of the bogs. Yet a large portion of the thread has focused on them.

Perhaps 'the additional distance' might seem greater to you if you had several discs along the length of your spine giving you gyp. Anyhow it doesn't matter. I've not been getting value for money for some years and, frankly, all the hoops one has to jump through to shoot on MOD land, the traveling, the expense, the horrendous standstill traffic jam on the return journey and not being able to shoot on the range I prefer when its convenient means I'll not be renewing at the end of the year. I'm sure I'll miss the now excellent toilets.

I fairly recently joined a club with access to quite a number of MOD ranges and didn't "jump through hoops", infact it was very easy.If you haven't got value for money for a number of years why keep renewing?, is there not a club or range more local?.

snayperskaya wrote:
If you haven't got value for money for a number of years why keep renewing?, is there not a club or range more local?.

This.

Why keep going back? There must be ranges near to you that are more suitable to your needs, ie available and with less traffic.

MoD ranges are/can be difficult to get on as an individual but as part of a club you can register with the DTE and book the ranges with minimal fuss, subject to availability of course. In the neighbourhood of Bisley there are a few range I have shot on in the last few years, there are clubs that book them and hold open competitions/shoots.

Mr_Logic wrote:The traffic in that area is worth bitching about. Frankly, if short range is your thing, then there are plenty of places better than Bisley.

Load testing is all I do at short range, so Stickledown is why I put up with that traffic!

wtfwtf

Firstly short range officially exists up to and including 600.

There are many more relavent (and in many ways far more skilled) shoots than F/TR taking place at ranges as close as 25 yards.

Dont let the "F1" of shooting rhubarb tint your glasses matey, wheels fall of them as well as anything else and they are becoming notably unreliable, with a hell of a lot of luck required to get through a race.

Simply because its not your bag is no reason to dismiss the needs of another shooter who (unlike me) may not be capable of passing SAS selection :55:

Or more to the point, the NSC may be the best option without which folk may have to pack it in, so another poor sod loses one of the few sports in which the less abled can compete on more or less equal term with us racing snakes :shakeshout:

Shame on you sir tesnews

Dark skies, make a noise mate but do it to the NSC as well mate

Agreed Maggot, shooting is shooting regardless of distance and those shooting 100 yard BR, or Gallery rifle or CSR out to 600 are no different to those shooting at 800 or 1000 or 1200 yards.

I am lucky, I get to shoot 1200 yards virtually every month however I am no different to those that shoot at 25/50 - we are all trying to get the holes nicely centred in the middle of the target.

As an aside, it is interesting to note 1200 is no longer shot in the F Class league, I very much doubt it was too challenging, probably more down to the logistics of getting shooters back to the 1200 point and the details shot. Disappointing all the same.

I think you have massively misunderstood what I'm saying, that's the only reason I can come up with for that tirade.

Here is a summary.

Dark Skies is complaining that the Nuclear police have booked out Short Siberia for every weekday for the foreseeable.

Provision is made for shooting 100 and 200 yards on Century. Dark Skies has a problem with mobility for the Century shooting; the suggestion was made to talk to the range office to have appropriate measures put in place. Dark Skies didn't want to make a fuss due to what appears to be a concern over 'being disabled'.

The NRA has a valid concern about the income they don't receive from having an empty range during the week, and I agree with their point that money is important enough to make the deal they made. Facilities have improved following this deal.

My point to Dark Skies is that he can't have it both ways - provision can be made to cater for his needs on Century but he needs to raise the point with the range office to enable them to do that. Century is a perfectly good range; its 100 and 200 yard shooting is 100% fine for the vast, vast majority of customers.

There are short-range facilities available at other ranges, without the hassle around transport and any problems arising from the SS / Century moves, which is the point I am making. I am not saying I don't care because I do, but the simple fact is that Bisley is a right PITA to get to for anyone that uses the motorways around it (so pretty much everyone, then), and if you don't have to go there, why bother? Certainly, if something about it annoys you and you want to shoot short range, then better to do so elsewhere because you CAN. I would LOVE to shoot somewhere else but I enjoy long range, and Bisley is the nearest 1000 yard range, except maybe Barton Road but there isn't much in it. I do still shoot short range there because I do my load testing on either Century or Short Siberia. Yes, Short Siberia is better, but either works.

I am not quite sure where you get that I don't value other shooters, or their disciplines? I absolutely DO. I am 100% in favour of facilities existing at Bisley for everyone, but the range has to make business sense or it simply won't be there for much longer. Therefore, if someone offers you a sackful of cash and the sacrifice is that relatively few shooters are affected at all (i.e. all shooters on SS during the week) and of those small group an even smaller percentage will struggle, then it makes business sense to say YES to that money, and for the vast majority of shooters, it's a positive thing to do.

I am 100% in favour of bettering access provision to all the ranges, and clearly bringing Century's close range to the same level as short siberia is a goal, and something they already are working on. In the meantime, a word at the range office gets pretty much everything sorted, so I really don't see what the problem is, and I really don't see how I have attacked anyone else!

Maggot wrote:

Mr_Logic wrote:The traffic in that area is worth bitching about. Frankly, if short range is your thing, then there are plenty of places better than Bisley.

Load testing is all I do at short range, so Stickledown is why I put up with that traffic!

wtfwtf

Firstly short range officially exists up to and including 600.

There are many more relavent (and in many ways far more skilled) shoots than F/TR taking place at ranges as close as 25 yards.

Dont let the "F1" of shooting rhubarb tint your glasses matey, wheels fall of them as well as anything else and they are becoming notably unreliable, with a hell of a lot of luck required to get through a race.

Simply because its not your bag is no reason to dismiss the needs of another shooter who (unlike me) may not be capable of passing SAS selection :55:

Or more to the point, the NSC may be the best option without which folk may have to pack it in, so another poor sod loses one of the few sports in which the less abled can compete on more or less equal term with us racing snakes :shakeshout:

Shame on you sir tesnews

Dark skies, make a noise mate but do it to the NSC as well mate

Tirade my arse.

That comes accross as elitist and a bit "I'm allright Jack" to be honest.

That's my problem a you ask.

If the boot was on the other hand you would be ticking like a Rolex.

I also miss the use of SS during the week.

Also, while I agree that allowing the nukie plod to use the range is good (in terms of generating income) I dont see why they should not book as required (with some preference for a premium if fit) rather than blocking the range 4 days a week then not using it.

I have seen them about, but have only ever seen them train on Stickldown thus far, SS being left for the tumbleweed to blow through.

Again, great idea from the NRA, but could do better and almost have it both ways.

OR have I totally missed them....? I dont think so.

Maggot wrote:Tirade my arse.

That comes accross as elitist and a bit "I'm allright Jack" to be honest.

That's my problem a you ask.

If the boot was on the other hand you would be ticking like a Rolex.

Not having a go (bear that in mind next time I see you on Century razz ), but I do think you and Ovenpaa have misinterpreted what Mr Logic was saying - From what Dark skies was saying I also assumed that he was only interested in shooting 100/200 yards, so Mr L was just offering some suggestions...

...in fact I think, like myself, he's being extra polite due to sympathy for Dark Skies situation.

Dougan wrote:

Maggot wrote:Tirade my arse.

That comes accross as elitist and a bit "I'm allright Jack" to be honest.

That's my problem a you ask.

If the boot was on the other hand you would be ticking like a Rolex.

Not having a go (bear that in mind next time I see you on Century razz ), but I do think you and Ovenpaa have misinterpreted what Mr Logic was saying - From what Dark skies was saying I also assumed that he was only interested in shooting 100/200 yards, so Mr L was just offering some suggestions...

...in fact I think, like myself, he's being extra polite due to sympathy for Dark Skies situation.

Dougan - I think you understand my point of view :)

Chris - if the boot was on the other foot, I wouldn't be ticking at all. My take on such things is to make the best of it, so I'd be talking to the range office and getting things sorted so I can enjoy my sport; I understand that Dark Skies doesn't want to do that and I respect his decision, but my outlook is completely different.

As for being elitist, I'm not sure what on Earth you're on about tbh - I support all shooters - long range, short range, rifle, pistol, shotgun! I have no issues with anyone enjoying whatever part of shooting appeals to them. I've done many disciplines over the years and while I don't enjoy them like I do F-class, I understand that others do and I respect them for it. I always have, and I've said anything or done anything to the contrary.