The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

In shooting parlance, the engineers amongst us will say "function over form," but the artists would probably say "fashion never function!" For me it has to function well AND look really nice, but I concede I normally pay for that privilege.

Nelly2014 wrote:And which 'airsoft gun' would that be?

The Dragunov? the 4 grand Mini-gun?

Not looking for a grudge match here but people ask for advice and may get get the impression that unless they spend a fortune on a 'proper' AR clone everyone will sneer at them. A club I frequent occasionally has a preponderance of Lantac, CMMG etc. primarily because newbies are made to feel that they need to spend £1500-2000 or more to be competitive and look good. On comp nights I am the only one who turns up with a 15-22 (although there are a few quirky types with 10-22's) and cheap ammo (Blazer) which it pumps out reliably and accurately. No issues or breakages to report.
Gun snobbery not a good thing.

Kungfugerbil wrote:

Gazza wrote:Duey's H&K thread seems to have veered off a touch.
One thing about H&K416's is they are more available than CMMG's

Yep, oops...

Another good thing about 416s is that you can get them with a factory short barrel.

If you're buying a 416, that's the one to buy.
Accuracy is fine for a plinker and a few people have used them to win mini rifle matches where speed is an important as accuracy.

On the subject of 15-22 vs full metal AR, I have both. My CMMG uses 15-22 mags, the 15-22 is accurate enough for a mini rifle match.
What is, for me, the decider on picking a 15-22 above all of the Walther/Umarex clones is the working bolt release, solid metal barrel and trigger upgrade compatibility.
I probably wouldn't like my 15-22 so much if it didn't have that CMC 3.5lb single stage trigger.

I don't have any pictures to share, but I do have video.

Nelly2014 wrote:Gun snobbery not a good thing.

It's not about snobbery - different things matter to different people. Some folks use their 15-22s for mini rifle / practical matches where the function and low cost trump everything. Some use expensive ARs for precision comps. Some just want a fun gun to inexpensively dump ammo in an amusing fashion.

For me, I had the choice of a 15-22 or a Sig 522 for £100 less. I handled both and much preferred the Sig. 15,000 rounds later, no regrets.

I've recently added a lightly used HK MP5 and it's great. Half the cost of a new 15-22 and feels much better. Plenty accurate for a fun gun - 25 rounds through an inch and a half at 20yds. Weighty, solid, tactile, substantial and functions flawlessly.

Inverse snobbery is a thing too

The DS version is But its nothing you couldn't reproduce with aftermarket furniture on a 15-22, albeit at a cost. With the 15-22 you get the ability to upgrade the trigger, use the best .22 AR magazines on the market (in terms of function) and have a 'proper' barrel though. Its also ridiculously light so excellent for mini-rifle type comps, or just for slight-framed people or kids to use.

FYI I have a Walther MP5 with a sleeved barrel and there is no issue with accuracy at the level required for this type of gun. With a scope attached mine will clover leaf (@20m) all the ammo I've put through it which is certainly not match type! (CCI minimag/standard/blaser and Federal Gameshock). Whether the 416 is the same though I couldn't say.

The only disadvantage that type of barrel has IMO is that if you want to completely disassemble the gun for cleaning it has to be re-zeroed because of the tension shrouded barrel has. Oh and it can sometimes work its way loose affecting accuracy, which mine did when I first got it but after tightening it from what the factory had done its never done it since. A friend with the same gun had to put some blue Loctite on his, but not exactly a great hardship.

"Inverse snobbery is a thing too"

Funnily enough after I posted I thought 'mmm, this sounds like 'Inverse gun snobbery' '

However having shot a few full-bore semi's the idea paying that kind of money for an overpriced emasculated one-trick-pony gun doesn't appeal. I would rather spend the money going abroad and shoot the real thing.

Nelly2014 wrote:..paying that kind of money for an overpriced emasculated one-trick-pony gun doesn't appeal.

I get where you're coming from there - there's no way I would spend more for a rimfire black gun than my match rifle; I just couldn't do it. But that's because *to me* my prone shooting is more important than any other discipline. Other people would rather peel their eyeballs than lie down in a gimp coat for hours on end. Can't say I blame them :)

I would also be reluctant as I want to do it all; there are many more disciplines, calibres and events out there and dropping all my cash on one go-faster .22 - even if it is the best thing since sliced bread - would mean not doing another type of shooting. And that's rubbish :)

I reckon my Cmmg totals around £1350 with the extras I've added to it over the years.

25,000 ultra reliable rounds of some of the best fun shooting I've ever had and it's still going strong.

It's enjoying what you're into that counts, everything else is vapour.

BamBam wrote:
What is, for me, the decider on picking a 15-22 above all of the Walther/Umarex clones is the working bolt release, solid metal barrel and trigger upgrade compatibility.

Shone waltger guns do have all those parts. My g36 ha a solid barrel and a working bolt release in addition to a bho for empty mags. Trigger may not be to upradeable. Not sure

bradaz11 wrote:

BamBam wrote:
What is, for me, the decider on picking a 15-22 above all of the Walther/Umarex clones is the working bolt release, solid metal barrel and trigger upgrade compatibility.

Shone waltger guns do have all those parts. My g36 ha a solid barrel and a working bolt release in addition to a bho for empty mags. Trigger may not be to upradeable. Not sure

Not being familiar with Shone Waltger, I really will have to take your word for it.

The HK416 and Colt M4 have a fake bolt release, which is what I was saying and keeping closer to the OP's original post.

Good to see all the comments on the different brands available
Will have to have a long hard look when it comes time to dive in and buy

Must say I was supprised when the HK emptied the mag, and the bolt stayed closed, I assumed that all the type had bolt open when empty, which I think I would prefere, as a solid indication that the gun is empty

Plenty of time to ponder, and check out, as renewal with variation not back until Feb 17 if all goes well

Duey