The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

A paradox shotgun has a rifled barrel, it is S1. Try buying one at auction on S2, you cannot. Take a look at Holt's and you can find them in the archive (all S1), and Nick would probably like to sell as S2 to open up the buyers market.

Shotgun is described as 'a smoothbore gun with a barrel length of not less than 24 inches' capable of firing shot up to a maximum size of .38 calibre with no less than five shot in a cartridge, and not capable of holding more than two cartridges in a magazine - or similar.

The thread is an interesting one, but cannot see how a rifled choke couldn't be anything other than a rifled barrel once complete, so S1 and by default an offence is committed. Bit like removing the magazine restrictor on a MAXUS and then putting it back after each session.
Or like screwing a moderator onto the screw cut barrel you own that does not have a condition for a moderator!

As far as other cases go, the police only consider something part of the barrel if it's permanently fixed:

Screw on choke tube - accessory.
Brazed on choke tube (ala SPAS 12) - barrel.

Screw on moderator - doesn't count towards barrel length.
Permanently fixed moderator (1911 LBP's) - does count.

The response from the fuzz clearly stated that they currently regard it as an accessory - it's not an S1 part or an S2 part. An actual rifled barrel is very different from a legal stand point.

However, the whole argument is a bit pointless. You'd only need one for slugs - and you can just buy rifled slugs - no need for any barrel ambiguity...

OK then, lets take that logic one step further. S&W M&P 15-22 semi auto, rimfire rifle. Section 1 in the UK. Mil-spec lower reciever size for the upgrade of trigger, safeties and the like.

Trigger parts are not component parts. Acquire the parts for a select fire trigger group. Install that trigger on your S&W. S5? You bet. Use a "choke to rifle your barrel", you've turned it S1, if a sxs, o/u or lever on S2. Put it on a pump or semi, you've turned it S5.

Mikaveli wrote: However, the whole argument is a bit pointless. You'd only need one for slugs - and you can just buy rifled slugs - no need for any barrel ambiguity...

Mikaveli
You’re right in some respects. I shoot slugs thro a S1 pump on a regular basis and I can tell you rifled chokes don’t work. By the time slug reaches the choke tube it’s whistling along at near maximum muzzle velocity either sitting in a plastic wad or just rattling around naked in the bore. In either case 2” of very shallow rifling at a distance of at least 24” from the slugs start point aint going to impart any spin on it, as the slug either leaves the wad behind or if it’s pushed by a fibre wad it passes it by barely touching it.

The so called “rifled slugs” do not spin and nor are the intended to, the “rifling” is merely there to reduce the surface area of the slug to allow easer passage through the muzzle if fired from a shotgun with any degree of choke.


SG
it’s not me that is implying that rifled tubes for Shotguns aren’t in and therefore not covered by the Firearms act it’s the Home Office and as you know they interpret the law and issue guidance for the police, (even though only the courts have the right to interpret the law). So if you know a FEO that says it’s illegal to own/use a rifled tube on a S2 shotgun then he’s not following the direction of said Home Office.

Mikaveli wrote:As far as other cases go, the police only consider something part of the barrel if it's permanently fixed:

Screw on choke tube - accessory.
Brazed on choke tube (ala SPAS 12) - barrel.

Screw on moderator - doesn't count towards barrel length.
Permanently fixed moderator (1911 LBP's) - does count.

The response from the fuzz clearly stated that they currently regard it as an accessory - it's not an S1 part or an S2 part. An actual rifled barrel is very different from a legal stand point.

However, the whole argument is a bit pointless. You'd only need one for slugs - and you can just buy rifled slugs - no need for any barrel ambiguity...

+1

Sim G wrote:OK then, lets take that logic one step further. S&W M&P 15-22 semi auto, rimfire rifle. Section 1 in the UK. Mil-spec lower reciever size for the upgrade of trigger, safeties and the like.

Trigger parts are not component parts. Acquire the parts for a select fire trigger group. Install that trigger on your S&W. S5? You bet. Use a "choke to rifle your barrel", you've turned it S1, if a sxs, o/u or lever on S2. Put it on a pump or semi, you've turned it S5.

That would be 'permanently' fixed though no? You couldn't remove it without disassembling the firearm?

Someone should write a book on this; 50 Shades of Grey Firearms :lol:

Blackstuff wrote: That would be 'permanently' fixed though no? You couldn't remove it without disassembling the firearm?

I don't think it would make any difference, Mark. It would be prohibited regardless as to whether it was permanent or temporary....

A "giggle switch" on a 15-22, how much fun would that be!

Purely following the concept of acedemic research, I have actually found a select fire trigger group, in the UK, unrestricted, but very expensive.....!

Add the cost of the unit to the financial implications of 5 years in jail, acedemic resurch is all it will remain!! :55:

David-mauser wrote: So if you know a FEO that says it’s illegal to own/use a rifled tube on a S2 shotgun then he’s not following the direction of said Home Office.

No David, this whole thread was about fitting a rifled choke tube to a S1 Benelli M2.

My FEO agreed that there was no restriction on owning the tube and the fitting of it on other category and type of shotguns raises it's own questrions/solutions. They could be done perfectly legally. But, shove it in a semi or pump....

Sim G wrote:

David-mauser wrote: So if you know a FEO that says it’s illegal to own/use a rifled tube on a S2 shotgun then he’s not following the direction of said Home Office.

No David, this whole thread was about fitting a rifled choke tube to a S1 Benelli M2.

My FEO agreed that there was no restriction on owning the tube and the fitting of it on other category and type of shotguns raises it's own questrions/solutions. They could be done perfectly legally. But, shove it in a semi or pump....

...with a variation required each time in the case of a sbs or single barrel?? - converting a smoothbore into a rifle

OK

If I have a spare s.2 shotgun barrel, it is itemised on my SGC

I have no seperate "slots" or listings for my choke tubes