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HALODIN wrote:.5 MOA at 25 yards is .5 inch/(100/25)= .125 inches, that's just slightly over 3mm which is smaller than the diameter of the bullet. I would say in .22LR for an AR style rifle @ 25 yards, 4 MOA (1 inch group) should be your maximum, with 2 MOA (.5 inches) being your target. I would say anything better than that and you're trying to use the wrong tool for the job. Sure if you put a long heavy match barrel on an AR and use match ammo you'll improve the accuracy, but you're starting to make the AR look more like a Match 54...

I find the copper wash ammo works brilliantly in my AR15, but it isn't match grade ammo and the problem with match ammo is it doesn't always cycle the bolt because of the lower fps. Whatever you decide to buy, I would say the weakest link is the quality of the ammo in a semi-auto, not the rifle itself.

I'm not sure why we would come to expect .5MOA at long range, but not at short range.

I understand that this isn't really the tool for the job of ultimate accuracy, but it is claimed that the .223 can obtain .5MOA, so why not the .22lr.

It would need to reach around 0.5MOA to shoot competitively, realistically. At least according to my calculations, which might be way off...

For example:



On a 25 yard target (10 spot) the bull is 12mm across and is inward gauged.

With 5.6mm of this area being taken up by the bullet itself.

Now if we go from the target centre and go 0.125" (half the red line shown on diagram) out and place another hole. it is touching the line.

same again in all directions (shown on diagram) This is the maximum possible variation you could expect and still be able to shoot competitively.

I'm not sure whether this is 1 MOA as I have shown the spread in both directions though... I'll be the first to admit that I'm not absolutely spot on when it comes to understanding the intricacies of angles involved.

If this is the case, then I would be after 1MOA or better, preferably around 0.5MOA ...

On Reflection, the image above depicts 1MOA

This revised image would be 0.5 MOA



0.5 would be crazy good. but somewhere between 1 and 0.5 (If attainable - still not heard from any makers) would be optimum...

I have moved this thread as the way it has gone makes it inappropriate to where it was originally posted.

If you want to know what LANTAC has to say on the original question then I suggest that you email them direct.

Hmm, It's still appropriate as its directly regarding their rifles.

As I say it's more to do with the ammo.

Assuming you have it bagged at the back, you're sporting a bipod and using the best match ammo for your rifle (not semi-auto friendly), I still don't think you'll find an AR-15 that will out shoot a heavy barrel Match 54. If I have the time next Tuesday, I'll stick a bipod on my AR15 and bag it at the back with match ammo and we'll see what it can do. How many shots in a group are you expecting to see?

HALODIN wrote:As I say it's more to do with the ammo.

Assuming you have it bagged at the back, you're sporting a bipod and using the best match ammo for your rifle (not semi-auto friendly), I still don't think you'll find an AR-15 that will out shoot a heavy barrel Match 54. If I have the time next Tuesday, I'll stick a bipod on my AR15 and bag it at the back with match ammo and we'll see what it can do. How many shots in a group are you expecting to see?

I'd say a few 3 to 5 shot groups...

See what can be done.

I'm not looking to out-shoot a heavy barrel Match 54... just "match" one

As I say, if Lantac claim .5MOA with the .223, then the quality of machining and barrel MUST be capable of shooting 0.5MOA...

The only thing to call into question therefore, is the quality of the "Gen2 Stainless Steel bolt from CMMG". And with it the return to battery consistency.

I could be way off, so it would be nice for someone "in the know" to enlighten me where I'm going wrong, but that's my understanding...

I don't think it will match one, because of the profile of the barrel and possibly the bolt. The only caveat I'll give up front is the barrel on my AR-15 is only 12", so you will probably get better results with a longer barrel. Why don't you try match ammo in your .22 semi?

Are there any 12mm targets I can download to print off?

Match ammo in my HK does tighten the groups a little., but nowhere near the accuracy level I desire (and I wouldn't expect it to - I'll show you for why):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QIn0h68Wo?t=3m20s[/youtube]

as he takes off the "barrel" at 3:20 what he's taking off is a shroud. the thin weedy tube that you're left with is the actual barrel of my rifle...

Yep OK it wasn't built for accuracy... it's built like my old C02 Brocock AR-12.

Why don't you give Paul a ring at Lantac as well?

As for targets, if you can shoot consistently at the same spot, and put something in the picture/scan to give reference for size of group (I used a 5p earlier, you could use anything)

The actual bull (I have one infront of me) is 1/2" as opposed to 12 mm (I know theres not a lot in it...!). But overall group size would be great to know what you can achieve in your spikes... :) Thanks :)

Will be giving Paul a ring when I get back from Czech Republic this weekend... Talk through my options and see if he can give an insight to past accuracy of rifles he's built...

I'd be amazed if he didn't do some sort of firing test down range to make sure they weren't spraying all over the place...