The worst butt marking...ever.

[IainWR]

There's only so much shooters will put up with before they start contacting the good markers directly and hiring them privately, depriving the NRA not only of revenue from their cut of the marker's fee but also the quality markers.

I'm virtually certain that the NRA loses money on the deal. Add liability insurance, employer's NI and a few pence for the admin cost of actually organising it all to the markers wages and deduct from what you pay. Is the answer greater than zero?

[Dougan]

Personally I have a suspicion that the recent addiction to smart phones by young people is responsible for some of the poor marking - I don't know about anyone else, but where I work it seems that it is impossible for anyone under 25 to even negotiate a flight of stairs without checking their mail or sending a text!

I'm sure some of the markers are looking at their phones between shots instead of the sand; which results in lots of message 4s and/or the long delay before the target is pulled down...

...the problem is (especially on Stickledown where the markers are isolated) that it is probably difficult for the supervisor/senior marker to 'crack the whip' when the job and conditions are already difficult.

I'm all for a happy marker, but at the end of the day we've all had jobs we didn't like, and just got on with them because we need the money - So markers should be expected to do their job properly or not at all...

...but to take this approach, the conditions and pay need to be fair - I still think that the pay issue could be resolved by tipping...the NRA don't need to make a profit from marking, only break even - If the NRA had to pay what it would take to make marking a 'proper job' (as opposed to a holiday/weekend job for youngsters) then it would probably have to raise range fees - but this is where tipping could make up the short fall...on Sunday there were 14 of us, so a £20 tip would have cost us less than 2 quid each...I would be more than happy to pay this for a good marker...and I'm sure an extra £20 on top of normal pay would make the marker happy too - The tips (or no tip) could be left at the range office along with feedback...good or bad...

Also; someone said about giving a 15 min break - That's a good point; and maybe something could be put in place officially, where by a marker can call in a break at some point during the session - Apart from being better for the marker, it wouldn't result in much loss of shooting time...as what happens often, is that while one marker takes a break (toilet or whatever) then another marker will try and operate 2 targets for 5/10 mins; which results in really poor marking...

[The Gun Pimp]

Marking a target in butts for a shooter you don't even know for a sport you have no interest in must be one of the most boring, un-rewarding jobs ever. Give the job to a bored teenager and you have a recipe for a f***-up.

Do you think they care one jot about your shoot? Do you think they care if your 'line-cutter' is in - or out? Why should they?

That goes for a lot of jobs, but it's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush....

I wasn't intending to criticize the 'bored teenager' but rather the person who gave him/her the job in the first place! Marking is such a crucial part of target shooting when positions are often decided on a single point or even V-bull count.

[Mr_Logic]

It is a very difficult situation for all. Markers are put in an impossible position - on Century I can mark pretty quickly, for a while. Those targets are heavy, as has been noted. I'm 6 foot and not a small bloke. While I am also old and fat, a youngster lacks the strength in the first place - fitness can only go so far. Add to that the low pay and boring conditions - what do we expect? I agree they should do their jobs well or not at all, but what can the NRA do?

Yes it can sack the odd one, but this is more than the odd one as we are all bitching about it. So they can't sack them all, and paying them more won't help.

From the shooter's PoV, it is infuriating. It does totally ruin the shoot; conversely, when they're good, it's great.

It has been suggested that we get markers shooting. I think that is the only way. Just for a day, get a few willing clubs and the NRA, and let's swap. More interest in their job will make them do it better, and some free shooting is not that difficult to provide - more cost effective than paying more so the NRA can solve the problem in another way.

However, realistically, go forward 10 years, they won't provide markers. We'll all be doing it ourselves.

[Dougan]

Sorry GP I wasn't intending to critisise your post either...It's a valid point.

I think though that due to the nature of the job (seasonal and quite crap at times) the NRA are stuck with 'bored teenagers' - So how to motivate them to do the job properly...?

As I keep saying, the first step is to make the targets easier to operate and generally improve the working conditions...

...then, markers need to be properly supervised, and as marking has some benefits to a teenager (you can't chat and smoke in many other jobs), I would ban the use of mobiles while working...

...finally, a bit of motivation - The NRA can't afford to pay more, so why not encourage shooters to tip good markers - a decent tip would motivate a marker to work hard, and the cost would be negligible to most shooters....It costs me £70 (including petrol and ammo) to come to Bisley for a days shooting; so another £2 (less than 3% of the total cost) would be well worth it for some good marking...

[Mr_Logic]

Sorry GP I wasn't intending to critisise your post either...It's a valid point.

I think though that due to the nature of the job (seasonal and quite crap at times) the NRA are stuck with 'bored teenagers' - So how to motivate them to do the job properly...?

As I keep saying, the first step is to make the targets easier to operate and generally improve the working conditions...

...then, markers need to be properly supervised, and as marking has some benefits to a teenager (you can't chat and smoke in many other jobs), I would ban the use of mobiles while working...

...finally, a bit of motivation - The NRA can't afford to pay more, so why not encourage shooters to tip good markers - a decent tip would motivate a marker to work hard, and the cost would be negligible to most shooters....It costs me £70 (including petrol and ammo) to come to Bisley for a days shooting; so another £2 (less than 3% of the total cost) would be well worth it for some good marking...

A good idea. And if we're tipping, it's not taxed

[Dougan]

It has been suggested that we get markers shooting. I think that is the only way. Just for a day, get a few willing clubs and the NRA, and let's swap. More interest in their job will make them do it better, and some free shooting is not that difficult to provide - more cost effective than paying more so the NRA can solve the problem in another way.

I've been thinking about this since it was first suggested, and I'm not sure it would be that motivational - I think that most would be more interested a bit more cash for clothes and mobile phone apps...

...and what about the ones who do really enjoy it...what then?...they'll have found out how enjoyable shooting is, but then have to continue just marking... with out the prospect of more shooting (which they can't afford themselves) it could even be demotivational...

[rox]

However, realistically, go forward 10 years, they won't provide markers. We'll all be doing it ourselves.

Marking ourselves - that might ensure progress in moving towards reliable electronic targets. I had excellent marking on the weekend, not just the 150-odd shots on electronics, but on 4 Stickledown targets too, though after almost 100 shots (in .308 off a sling) in half a day it was me in need of a rest, not the markers.

..

[Andy632]

we could see, even from the point, that the target we were on was badly balanced - it was crashing down, but then obviously very difficult to lift up again...anyone who has done their own marking will have experienced this...

...

I've often thought a simple solution to this problem would be a small water tank (even a bracket to hold a couple plastic gallon containers would do) These could be filled/emptied as required. A rain water butt could supply the water.

I was shooting on Siberia last Saturday and our target, although free running was too light and would not stay down while patching - really difficult if you're on your own but really easy to fix. The weight needs to be trimmable as there's no guarantee any two targets are the same weight.

That is the best idea that I have heard in a long time. Why don't you make the suggestion to the NRA?

This is what we've got in use for counter-balancing. 25l plastic container, modified & holding a load of gravel.
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[hitchphil]

Range office have been in touch & a very fair offer recieved with thanks.

60% of markers are new & are bing used on live targets for first time. Imperial markers are students & colledge kids who are proven & there is a supervisor per butt. The imperial is more assured.

Given the weather & the intro of new markers might be an idea for some events to wait till June!?