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Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:26 am
by @nd
Hi All
I have just applied to join join the NRA at Bisley and once i have passed my probationary i would eventually like to buy two different types of rifle, one with iron sights i.e. .303 Enfield and telescopic sights i.e. Remington 700 and shoot both at Bisley .
Does any one know if the NRA probationary course covers both for the range certificate or separate courses have to be taken.
Thanks Andrew

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:45 am
by dromia
It is the Safe Shooting Certificate you will try and get, the MoD range certficate is something else.

The NRA course when last I saw it has become modular with a basic safety section, then other sections for different types of rifles including the two types you are after so the course covers your needs just make sure that you are trained and examined on both types for you card to be signed appropriately

. It is a Bisley based course and no doubt works well for people wishing to shoot there, however for real world shooters it is very clunky and not easily ammended to different situations, again suggesting the NRA's lack of understanding of shooting on MoD ranges out with Bisley but it is the only game in town so we are stuck with it.

Just as an afterthought, in the preamble to the latest MoD missive it talks about the governing bodies of shooting issuing safe shooting certificates for MoD ranges, how does that work with say the NSRA or the MLAGB do they have their own courses that meet the MoD standard of competence or do they just use the NRA one?

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:55 am
by @nd
Hi dromia
Now i'm more confused i thought they were one and the same!
Will i need both to shoot these types of rifle at Bisley and say at Barton Road Cambridgeshire another MOD range and will the NRA course cover this
Andrew

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:05 am
by dromia
No all you need is the safe shooters certificate that the NRA course will cover you to shoot unsupervised on Mod ranges. The MoD range certificate is what covers the use of any MoD range, you do not need to worry about these unless your are a signing on RCO.

As I have said the NRA course will cover you for both so long as you do both modules.

All this should be explained to you when you undertake your training and the options offered to you.

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:39 am
by knewmans
Having completed this recently the process was:

The introductory day which was an introduction to various disciplines, safety and legislation, This is probably the Probationary course you mean.

Training days for each of the disciplines you want to do e.g. iron sighted rifle, Gallery rifle and scoped rifle. I found scheduling these for midweek was less crowded and no more expensive.

Attend three probationary shoots with the NRASC at Bisley where you are supervised.

Having done that your full NRA membership is confirmed and you receive an SCC showing the disciplines you are deemed to be safe shooting. Whole process took me about 4 months and a somewhat lighter wallet.

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:09 pm
by @nd
Hi ken
Are the mid week sessions full day or half day AM or PM as i commitments and cant always make weekends
Andrew

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:46 pm
by IainWR
knewmans wrote:Having completed this recently the process was:

The introductory day which was an introduction to various disciplines, safety and legislation, ...

Training days for each of the disciplines you want to do e.g. iron sighted rifle, Gallery rifle and scoped rifle.

Attend three probationary shoots with the NRASC at Bisley where you are supervised.
These elements together are the training to get from probationary to full NRA membership, thus they constitute the NRA Probationary Course for practical purposes (but note comments below about disciplines).
Having done that your full NRA membership is confirmed and you receive an SCC showing the disciplines you are deemed to be safe shooting.
The SCC does not show disciplines, it shows groupings of firearm type as agreed with MoD. A Discipline is "a competitive target shooting activity explicitly limited by parameters set out by a governing body" (Section 16 NRA Handbook).

Dromias two comments show the absolute necessity in this kind of discussion of getting the terminology correct. There is actually no such thing as an MoD Range Certificate. There are:

Range Safety Certificates: statements that a range is safe to operate within certain limits. Issued for MoD ranges by MoD based on advice from their internal experts, or for civilian ranges by the range operator on advice from one of the National Governing Bodies, though many civilian ranges continue to operate on the basis of certificates issued in the past by MoD. Transparent to the ordinary club shooter in the sense that the club management or RCO should look after issues arising from the limitations in the Range Safety Certificate, and communicate them in a user-friendly fashion to the shooter.

MoD Licenses: these are the basis of the contractual arrangement between MoD and a club to hire MoD facilities (ie a range). Should also be transparent to the ordinary shooter.

Range Conducting Officer certificates: the evidence of qualification by one of the NGBs as an RCO, which carries the privelige of supervising civilians on an MoD range. Should also be transparent to the ordinary shooter, except to realise you need one to do the job, so don't volunteer unless you have one!

SCCs (I can never remember exactly what this stands for): the evidence that a civilian shooter is competent in using certain classes of firearm, issued by their Club Chairman under the agreement between NGBs and MoD to permit members of civilian clubs to use MoD ranges. Also required at Bisley because of the way in which the NRA / MoD agreement was structured. Part of MoDs audit trail, and serves no other purpose. The shooter's responsibility to maintain, and the club's responsibility to ensure that the shooter does not go on the range without one.

and a number of other bits of paper.

Regarding the latest MoD Policy letter (RSPL 13/02).

Governing bodies issue RCO qualifications (running a range). Club Chairmen issue SCCs (shooting on a range). The NRA is both an NGB and a Club in its own right, and because of the size of the membership has an agreement that SCCs may be signed by the Secretary General (a secondary appointment of the Chief Executive and thus work by a paid professional) rather than the Chairman (an unpaid volunteer who has enough to worry about without having to sign loads of cards every time he turns up).

The MLAGB RCO course can be documented as an additional qualification on an NRA RCO card. I don't know if MLAGB also issue cards in their own right (eg off a course run at Wedgenock?). NSRA run their own course and issue their own qualifications. Not sure what the shot gun users do in terms of process.

Yes, it's complicated and a bit messy. If you are at all unsure, do ask - do not risk getting it wrong through ignorance.

Iain
Range Safety Compliance Officer
NRA

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:07 pm
by dromia
A question then for the NSRA, perhaps directed at dodgyrog as he has something to do with them in a lay capacity.

What course does the NSRA offer so that you can be certified as safe shooter for MoD ranges?

Further could someone direct me to where I could get a copy.

Does anyone have an NSRA Safe Shooters Certificate?

It is just I've never seen one and as an RCO I would like to know what they are so that I recognise one if I see it.

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:12 pm
by knewmans
As you say Ian the SCC shows types of firearm.

Andrew I arranged the midweek sessions via the NRA training contact and we could always manage to work out something that suited. The length of session varied but always started in the morning.

Re: Mod Range Certificate

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:56 pm
by IainWR
dromia wrote:A question then for the NSRA, perhaps directed at dodgyrog as he has something to do with them in a lay capacity.

What course does the NSRA offer so that you can be certified as safe shooter for MoD ranges?

Further could someone direct me to where I could get a copy.
No course is required for an SCC. It just requires the Club Chairman to sign you off. How the CC satisfies himself as to your competence is up to him.

Does anyone have an NSRA Safe Shooters Certificate?

It is just I've never seen one and as an RCO I would like to know what they are so that I recognise one if I see it.
They are identical to the NRA ones except they say NSRA on the front and have the maltese cross badge as a watermark rather than bill and ben. Note that they are only valid if the underlying club is affiliated to the NSRA and the activity certified falls within their remit - which also applies to the other NGBs and the activities within their respective remits - and which appears to be part of the issue buried in the latest RSPL - will be interesting to see what's in my inbox tomorrow morning.

Iain