Sec1 Shotgun: Gwent Police and the 'UKPSA' requirement....
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:47 pm
Hi All,
Sorry for an epic post, but if you want the background to this post then have a quick look here: http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13580 but the short version is...
I have the facilities to shoot a Sec1 shotgun, I have the intention to shoot a Sec1 shotgun, I want a Sec1 shotgun - please give me a 1-for-1 variation so I can go and buy one
.
As can be seen in the linked post, I made a prediction that "Now I just have to wait for Gwents' finest to refuse my 1 for 1, then I complain....then they grant it...."
Well....call me Nostradamus....but bring it on!!! I'm short, I'm fat and I'm a bl*&dy barack room lawyer with nothing better to do than pi$$ off any one in authority who thinks they're above the rest of us 'Little People'. Me v's Gwent Police, I might lose, but there'll be a hell of a lot of shouting before I go down
Before I rant on, please do not think me anti-police in any way because I'm not. Plod on the street gets my complete respect (most of the time anyway) and I fully agree most coppers are doing a job I couldn't do myself. I just hate management in ANY field who thinks they can make up or change the rules to suit their personal whims.
Anyway, to the point of this rambling....here's my reply to Gwents' Firearms Licensing manager.....do you think I might change her mind?
"Dear Ms. Gxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your letter of 13th Sep. where you inform me of the decision to refuse my 1-for-1 variation for a Section 1 shotgun due to my not meeting the good reason criteria. As explained by FEO Lindon Pxxxxxx, according to Gwent Police all Section 1 Shotgun grants for Target or Practical shotgun can only be made to members of the UKPSA.
Unfortunately I cannot agree with the stance taken by Gwent Polices’ Firearms Licensing Department as it appears to be neither rooted in law (the various Firearms Amendment Acts) nor based upon the current Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law which was published August 2013. As this latest Home Office guide is a recent publication I have included a link to the Home Office website in case Gwent Police are still using the older (2006) Home Office Guidance document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... olice-2012
As your refusal of my variation application was based on my non-membership of the UKPSA I would like to challenge this on several points:
• The UKPSA is not mentioned in ANY firearms legislation
• The good reason requirement for any form of target shooting is satisfied by the applicant having the opportunity and intention to use the firearm being applied for
o Guidance notes: 13.49. “[section 1 shot guns] can, however, be held on an individual’s firearm certificate as long as they have the facilities to use the firearms for target shooting.”
o Dxxxxx Rifle and Pistol club has the facilities to shoot both Target Shotgun and Practical Shotgun on its own ranges and does so on a regular basis
• While the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2013 makes reference to membership of the UKPSA it is clear that this is not a pre-requisite to granting a Section 1 Shotgun application as membership of an NRA affiliated club is specifically given for Section 1 Shotgun use ahead of membership of the UKPSA
o Guidance notes: 13.56. “Applicants should normally be a member of a relevant organisation such as the National Rifle Association, the United Kingdom Practical Shooting Association or National Target Shotgun Association, either individually or as a member of an affiliated club.”
• While not relevant to my case as I am a member of a National Rifle Association Affiliated Club, I would suggest that the use of the word ‘normally’ within section 13.56 of the guidance notes refutes the assertion by Gwent Police that an applicant must be a member of any organisation, let alone restricted to the UKPSA, before being granted authority to possess a Section 1 Shotgun and allows the issuing force the discretion to grant authority solely on membership of a club which has the facilities to shoot Section 1 shotguns.
To summarise, I would be grateful if you would personally reconsider my application for a 1-for-1 variation to my Firearms Certificate to allow the authority to possess a Section 1 Shotgun based on the following:
1. I have the faculties and intention to use the shotgun on a regular basis as required in 13.49 of the 2013 guidance notes
2. I am a member of a National Rifle Association Affiliated Club as required by section 13.56 of the 2013 guidance notes.
Please do not hesitate to contact me on any of the telephone numbers listed below if you wish to discuss this further.
Yours sincerely,
David xxxxx"
I'm giving it a 20% chance of grant at first complaint :lol: , but the problem we have in Gwent at the moment is that a licensed shotgun owner killed his wife last month so I think the FEO's are running a little scarred.
Last question...Does anyone know if the IPCC deals with complaints about licensing?
Regards
David
Sorry for an epic post, but if you want the background to this post then have a quick look here: http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13580 but the short version is...
I have the facilities to shoot a Sec1 shotgun, I have the intention to shoot a Sec1 shotgun, I want a Sec1 shotgun - please give me a 1-for-1 variation so I can go and buy one
.As can be seen in the linked post, I made a prediction that "Now I just have to wait for Gwents' finest to refuse my 1 for 1, then I complain....then they grant it...."
Well....call me Nostradamus....but bring it on!!! I'm short, I'm fat and I'm a bl*&dy barack room lawyer with nothing better to do than pi$$ off any one in authority who thinks they're above the rest of us 'Little People'. Me v's Gwent Police, I might lose, but there'll be a hell of a lot of shouting before I go down
Before I rant on, please do not think me anti-police in any way because I'm not. Plod on the street gets my complete respect (most of the time anyway) and I fully agree most coppers are doing a job I couldn't do myself. I just hate management in ANY field who thinks they can make up or change the rules to suit their personal whims.
Anyway, to the point of this rambling....here's my reply to Gwents' Firearms Licensing manager.....do you think I might change her mind?
"Dear Ms. Gxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your letter of 13th Sep. where you inform me of the decision to refuse my 1-for-1 variation for a Section 1 shotgun due to my not meeting the good reason criteria. As explained by FEO Lindon Pxxxxxx, according to Gwent Police all Section 1 Shotgun grants for Target or Practical shotgun can only be made to members of the UKPSA.
Unfortunately I cannot agree with the stance taken by Gwent Polices’ Firearms Licensing Department as it appears to be neither rooted in law (the various Firearms Amendment Acts) nor based upon the current Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law which was published August 2013. As this latest Home Office guide is a recent publication I have included a link to the Home Office website in case Gwent Police are still using the older (2006) Home Office Guidance document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... olice-2012
As your refusal of my variation application was based on my non-membership of the UKPSA I would like to challenge this on several points:
• The UKPSA is not mentioned in ANY firearms legislation
• The good reason requirement for any form of target shooting is satisfied by the applicant having the opportunity and intention to use the firearm being applied for
o Guidance notes: 13.49. “[section 1 shot guns] can, however, be held on an individual’s firearm certificate as long as they have the facilities to use the firearms for target shooting.”
o Dxxxxx Rifle and Pistol club has the facilities to shoot both Target Shotgun and Practical Shotgun on its own ranges and does so on a regular basis
• While the Home Office Guide on Firearms Licensing Law 2013 makes reference to membership of the UKPSA it is clear that this is not a pre-requisite to granting a Section 1 Shotgun application as membership of an NRA affiliated club is specifically given for Section 1 Shotgun use ahead of membership of the UKPSA
o Guidance notes: 13.56. “Applicants should normally be a member of a relevant organisation such as the National Rifle Association, the United Kingdom Practical Shooting Association or National Target Shotgun Association, either individually or as a member of an affiliated club.”
• While not relevant to my case as I am a member of a National Rifle Association Affiliated Club, I would suggest that the use of the word ‘normally’ within section 13.56 of the guidance notes refutes the assertion by Gwent Police that an applicant must be a member of any organisation, let alone restricted to the UKPSA, before being granted authority to possess a Section 1 Shotgun and allows the issuing force the discretion to grant authority solely on membership of a club which has the facilities to shoot Section 1 shotguns.
To summarise, I would be grateful if you would personally reconsider my application for a 1-for-1 variation to my Firearms Certificate to allow the authority to possess a Section 1 Shotgun based on the following:
1. I have the faculties and intention to use the shotgun on a regular basis as required in 13.49 of the 2013 guidance notes
2. I am a member of a National Rifle Association Affiliated Club as required by section 13.56 of the 2013 guidance notes.
Please do not hesitate to contact me on any of the telephone numbers listed below if you wish to discuss this further.
Yours sincerely,
David xxxxx"
I'm giving it a 20% chance of grant at first complaint :lol: , but the problem we have in Gwent at the moment is that a licensed shotgun owner killed his wife last month so I think the FEO's are running a little scarred.
Last question...Does anyone know if the IPCC deals with complaints about licensing?
Regards
David
) I'd love to visit sometime. A far as shooting organisations go, I think my cheque will be on the way to 4islands - once my Sec1 is approved!! Bl&^dy minded I know, but it's the principle that I don't need to be a member of UKPSA, 4islands etc. etc. that I want Gwent to agree with, once granted I'll join in an instant!