The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Morning, all.

I have a question, if I may. Now, this isn't really a serious question, it's more a case of; colour me interested as I don't know the answer to this. Purely a hypothetical question.

Are you allowed to convert a muzzle loader to a breech loader?

Reasoning: I've got a Pedersoli made flintlock "Brown Bess" carbine, it's a bit nicked around the edges as it was my "learning musket" but ultimately it's a good shooter, if not a lil' bit boring in my view. If money was no object* I often imagine fun things to do to it, like convert it to percussion and the like, it's not an original and to my knowledge no Brown Bess carbine was ever produced, so it's not even historically accurate.

The carbine is a smoothbore and is listed on my S2 SGC, but say we did convert it: I don't know, we stick a Snider style breech in it, would the Constabulary go for that? I would assume at the very least it would become a S1 FAC firearm.

What sayeth you?

* Yeah, okay.

They did do a carbine Brown Bess and why would it be a S1, as long as it is still smooth bore with a 24 inch barrel,or is it shorter than that if a breach section is cut out?

Gazoo wrote:They did do a carbine Brown Bess and why would it be a S1, as long as it is still smooth bore with a 24 inch barrel,or is it shorter than that if a breach section is cut out?

Was there? News to me, it was my understanding all that all carbines were of a different pattern, such as for the cavalry and artillery, etc. I've never come across a Brown Bess carbine in any of my books or research. Though it certainly makes sense to simply shorten the service musket to carbine length.

I would still be the same length, but I just assume the police being whom they are, they would prefer a breech-loading arm to be a S1. Who knows what they want, when I applied for my SGC for the sole reason of owning the Bess, my FLO told me that it would need to be a S1 as I was shooting ball, not shot. He later changed his mind, though.

Aren't all shotguns breach loading anyway?

No, they are not.
Fred

FredB wrote:No, they are not.
Fred

obviously excluding muzzle loaders

Tower75 wrote:

Gazoo wrote:They did do a carbine Brown Bess and why would it be a S1, as long as it is still smooth bore with a 24 inch barrel,or is it shorter than that if a breach section is cut out?

Was there? News to me, it was my understanding all that all carbines were of a different pattern, such as for the cavalry and artillery, etc. I've never come across a Brown Bess carbine in any of my books or research. Though it certainly makes sense to simply shorten the service musket to carbine length.

I would still be the same length, but I just assume the police being whom they are, they would prefer a breech-loading arm to be a S1. Who knows what they want, when I applied for my SGC for the sole reason of owning the Bess, my FLO told me that it would need to be a S1 as I was shooting ball, not shot. He later changed his mind, though.

Yes Tower75, of a different pattern (cavalry or artillery)
As for S1, if you tell FEO that you are shooting ball he will want to put you on S1, but why can't you be using shot? Don't complicate matters for yourself if just using it for fun, but if you are going in to comps and things or on your range then they will need to see it is on your S1 ticket anyway.

I understand that "........any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:—
(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;........." (Home Office Guidance Part 1,1,4a) is section one.

Thus it is the cartridge that is controlled not the section two shotgun in relation to the number of bits of shot or a single slug you fire out of it.

As a muzzle loader does not use a cartridge you may stuff down the barrel and fire what you want with impunity.

I shoot a lovely 0.45" Japanese matchlock, smooth-bore and only a single ball is fired. It is section two. It is probably my most fun gun to shoot.