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AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:38 pm
by Nelly2014
I've got a Ruger SR22 which I don't use much and I'm thinking of flogging/trading whatever and getting an AK clone.
Which one is the best made? Are they reliable? Ammo fussy? And are they good enough to use for Practical mini?

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:17 am
by snayperskaya
You have three choices here in the UK, in no particular order you have the Saiga which is produced in Russia by KalashnikovConcern (formerly Izhmash) and are produced on the same lines as their military counterparts.Next is the Cugir Arsenal produced AKM and AKMS (AKM has a fixed stock, AKMS is an underfolder) and now there are two offerings from Bulgaria available, one in 7.62x39 the other in .223/5.56mm (which is just wrong for an AK!).

First off the Saiga, I have owned two of them and they are accurate (as an AK can be, which is better than a lot of people give them credit for) and well made and come in a variety of configurations, ie folding/fixed stock, full length barrel/carbine and are available in 7.62x39 and .223/5.56 (see above).Some have milspec muzzle brakes/flash hiders, some don't, same with mag well dimples.Have the plus point that they are made in Russia by Kalashnikov, but as they are sold as a "sporting" rifle they lack a feed ramp which is (usually) required to use milspec mags, as Saiga specific mags have a feed ramp incorporated into the front of the mag body whereas milsurp mags have a cutout in the front of the mag, the mag catch also needs fettling to get milsurp mags to lock up as the locking lug on military mags is slightly bigger.I fitted feed ramps and modified the mag catch on both the Saigas I had and both feed and extracted perfectly and never experienced any hard extraction problems.The Saiga bolt carrier and bolt are based on the AK-74 spec so are slightly smaller than those in an AKM and the firing pin is the free-floating type.Might be hard to find a new one at the moment do to KalashnikovConcern being on the sanctions list.

Next the Romanians, I currently own an AKM and an AKMS.As standard I do not like the Romanian handguards etc but it's nothing a swap for some Soviet laminated Birch doesn't sort out.Finish isn't quite as good as the Saiga but in my opinion the Romanians are as close as you can get over here to an original Soviet-era AKM.From my experience they are as accurate as a Saiga (they all have hard chrome lined barrels which does have an effect on accuracy but is a godsend if you use corrosive milsurp ammo).Loads of different furniture etc available and will accept and feed from milspec mags straight out of the box as they have a 'proper' AKM feed ramp, so you're good to go with anything from a 10r factory mag to a 75r Chicom drum.Both mine feed, extract and eject perfectly.The standard Romanian stock on the AKMS underfolder isn't brilliant as when unfolded it slopes downward at an angle and can wobble a touch as it only locks on one side of the receiver.....if you are adventurous you can fit a Soviet stamped stock, this sits straight out the back more or less horizontal to the bore and gives a nicer cheekweld (not overly comfortable at best though) and has the advantage that it locks on both sides of the receiver but it does involve a Dremel and a steady hand to fit as the internal mechanism is different in its orientation between the Romanian and Russian versions.

Lastly the Bulgarians, I haven't seen a straight-pull version yet but Mikhail Kalashnikov himself was quoted as saying that the Bulgarian Arsenal factory produces the best quality AK variants outside of Russia so praise indeed.

With regard to ammo......mine certainly aren't ammo fussy and will shoot anything I put through them including 1960s-dated stuff.I only shoot steel-cased milsurp and I would highly recommend that if you do you clean throughly as the Berdan primers are corrosive.I flush the barrels with boiling water to flush the corrosive salts and then clean and lube as normal and never had a problem.As well as the barrel/chamber you need to remove and clean the muzzle brake/flash hider and clean the threads etc and also clean and oil the threads on the end of the barrel.On the subject of AK muzzle brakes and flash hiders......if it wobbles a bit that's good as they are mean to, I have seen them pretty much "welded" on where they haven't been removed for cleaning and the threads have rusted solid!.

I don't know about competition use but I use mine regularly at Sennybridge and on a good day if I do my bit both of mine will drop Fig11s out to 500m with relative ease with standard Russian milsurp ammo and are great fun which is what it's all about :good:

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:30 am
by Nelly2014
Ah, I think we have a slight misunderstanding. I should have made it plain that I am after a .22 lr version. I, obviously wrongly, assumed that the practical /mini rifle reference along with the SR22 bit would allude.
But the info is interesting Snayperskaya and you obviously know your subject.

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:44 am
by snayperskaya
That'll teach me to ramble on won't it!!! ussrflag

I have a little Armi Jager AP80 .22lr copy, these are cheap enough to pick up but the big problem is the availability of mags and spare firing pins and extractors.I have seen mags go for £100 and thats a used one.

I suppose the other option in the GSG copy, never tried one so I can't really comment......the "Holy Grail" would be the Izhmash produced Saiga .22lr which are pretty much a full-on AKM but in .22lr, they are as rare as a very rare thing and the chances of them ever coming into the country again are somewhere between nil and zero.Someone on here has one and I am very envious, but don't tell them that! :good:., to be honest I don't think KalashnikovConcern still produce them I think they may have been discontinued. Another one along similar lines was produced in Romania but I've never heard of one in the UK and I believe they are pretty rare in the States.

Why not go for a 7.62x39?.......you know you want to! ussrflag

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:05 am
by BamBam
Somebody should make AK style furniture for the 10/22.

I've not had one, but seen a few people struggle with the GSG AK clone, they can be found cheaply however.

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:45 am
by Blackstuff
Never seen one used for a mini-rifle match, but if you really like the AK platform, why not! I use an MP5 clone because i like the gun, if i wanted to stand a better chance of winning i'd have a bells and whistles AR-15 clone.

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:37 am
by Nelly2014
My Ruger SR22 is a fine gun and my S&W 15-22 is more than fine. I've used them both in club comps and the S&W is the one I favour obviously. I just fancy something a bit different and the AK type seems mad and quirky enough
but I would like something that is also practical enough to use in the occasional comp. Which is why I have asked the question.
If anyone has one I could have a go with ideally at Worcester or Midlands somewhere let me know.

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:33 am
by Ginger
There is always the Armscor option, I am not sure about spares etc

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/ak47-rifles/rifles/741790

And no its not mine!

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:50 am
by snayperskaya
Ginger wrote:There is always the Armscor option, I am not sure about spares etc

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/ak47-rifles/rifles/741790

And no its not mine!
Pretty much the Armi-Jager AP80 by another name

Re: AK-47 for fun or practical

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:07 pm
by Swifty Boy
I have used my Saiga 22 for mini rifle and Bianchi GRSB comps, it's very accurate. Unfortunately there are only three of them in the UK so your chances of finding one are remote...and I would probably be bidding against you ;-)

For a viable mini rifle gun, your only real current option for an AK is the GSG. As I understand it they operate OK but in my opinion they look terrible. If I wanted something unique with reasonable looks, mag capacity and reliability I would probably go for a Pietta PPS50 (PPSH-41 lookalike).