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I have a variation for a .451 muzzle loader, it was originally for a first gen Parker Hale to go with my .577 but prices on these are spiralling. I have seen a pedersoli Gibbs for sale locally for what looks like no money in comparison. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts?

The Gibbs are very highly rated and seem to have supplanted the Volunteers as the firearm of choice for those of a competitive predisposition so that must say something about the gun.

These target rifles were the epitome of muzzle-loading shooting and seem to have given up little in their modern repro guise, I have found them to be extremely accurate if well cared for however for me their is just something about the PH Volunteers. A very British reproduction of a very British rifle.

Never found a .451 Whitworth when I had a slot....nor any other P-H .451 (that I could afford)

It is not a whitworth, it's a volunteer coming up in a local auction. But I noticed the Gibbs advert locally, head says you can't afford the PH buy the pedersoli, but heart says the PH would sit very happily withe my 1981 1858 .577. Guess I'll go to the auction and have a look!

Depends what you want to do with your .451.

The Volunteer with its military stock and open sights is an enjoyable rifle to shoot. To get best results from it, especially at longer ranges, then aperture sights are needed. Some come onto the market with such sights added, if not you may want to consider what the additional cost for sights may be if that's the way you want to go. They can be competitive at mid-range (out to 600 yards), but somehow don't seem to feature so much at longer ranges.

The Pedersoli Gibbs has a pistol grip stock which may be more comfortable. It comes with aperture sights that will get you shooting at 1200 yards (furtherest I shot mine). It has a good track record for match winning scores at long range.

For many years the P-H Volunteer & Whitworth were used for mid and long range shooting, other than that choice was quite limited - some custom built match rifles appeared and of course there were originals (expensive). The Ped. Gibbs changed things a lot and insorfar as I am aware is still the only 'mass production' muzzle loaidng match rifle on the market. It enabled a lot of people to get into long range muzzle loading.

David

I don't have access to long ranges, and I don't see myself as a contender in competition. I'm not trekking down to bloody bisley, and have no overland permission so the most I will be shooting regularly will be 200m so both are probably wasted on me but I am certainly interested in the long range POTENTIAL of the rifles. I love shooting my .577 and was looking to add another interesting BP rifle to my toy-box at a cheaper price than the beautiful over under Viennese Damascus percussion double rifle a local gunsmith showed me a couple of months ago!

I rarely shoot long range now, 100-300 yards is my normal shooting ranges with the occasional 600. Either rifle will do you well at the distances you shoot.

I mainly shoot at 100 as my most accessible range is 100 yards, here is a typical 100 group from my 3 band Volunteer about half way down the thread.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23385

What is the sight picture on a volunteer? I find the double vee set up on the .577 quite difficult tbh, much prefer a post and notch like a mosin or smle.

"V" notch rear sight, which is easy enough to file into a "U" if you must and a bead on post foresight, the bead of which sits nicely in the "V".

Then again I cheat by dropping in a Ross MK3 aperture rear site which is windage and elevation adjust. They do seem to be thin on the ground nowadays however and I am glad I laid in a dozen when I did.