Gun Rooms

[JWR]

Hi!
Having spoken to my local FEO (who is openly anti-gun, pray for me when my FAC application gets sent in!) about this and she has told me the only way to make a room safe for guns to be stored in is to line the whole thing with steel sheet (!!!), I decided to take it beyond her incompetence and get it confirmed by someone more senior in the firearms licensing department. I would like to confirm my understanding of it is correct first though. I am referencing the Firearms Security Manual 2020 which I will link below.

The room will have 2 external concrete walls and 2 internal stud walls.

"Gun Room
29. The adaptation of an existing room within a building which may be considered to be suitable for the security of the firearms, shotguns and ammunition where the enclosure does not have any walls of timber and plasterboard construction (studded wall) unless the area has been rendered secure by:
a) the fitting of expanded metal mesh, not less that 4mm (8swg) or not greater than 30mm by 50mm
section, secured to the studding at not more than 300mm centres by suitable screw fastenings; and
b) if the wall may be subject to sustained attack, consideration should be given to tying the mesh to
adjoining walls, floor and ceiling, or mounting in a frame secured to these areas."

I am interpreting this to mean:
The 2 exterior concrete walls need no additional protection.
The 2 stud walls can be secured by 4mm+ gauge by any section expanded mesh (theoretically these could be meter wide spaces in the mesh?), or smaller than 30mm x 50mm but any gauge of mesh. Also “metal”, so doesn’t have to be steel.

So for example this would be fine:
https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/02 ... 0_x_1220mm
Sheet size: 2440 x 1220mm
Mesh size LW: 43.43mm
Mesh size SW: 18.03mm
Strand width: 2.31mm
Strand thickness: 1.14mm



"39. Where the ceiling of the room is accessible from a vulnerable area, e.g. a loft, its security should be
enhanced by the installation of a weldmesh grille secured to the walls of the room or if an alarm is fitted, by
a method of detecting any attack at this point."

So this must now be a different type of mesh? Which has exactly zero spec given other than weld mesh? Why cant I use the same damn mesh!?
Floor has a basement, so I will treat it the same as the ceiling.

So for the ceiling and floor this would be ok?:
https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/01 ... our_Bright

There must be a reason for the different kind of mesh used on the ceiling?
Does “weldmesh grille” suggest it needs to be in a frame of some kind? Also it doesn’t say anything about it being actually attached to the ceiling itself at any point.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... l_2020.pdf

[bradaz11]

neither of those examples meet the requirements as they are smaller than 4mm

I think the 2nd point is only to cover the loft hatch, but as yuou will need an alarm these days anyway, just alarm that area, and mesh the floor/ceiling with the same as on the walls.

[Alpha1]

Why not just Rawl bolt a couple of gun cabinets to the concrete walls.

[JWR]

neither of those examples meet the requirements as they are smaller than 4mm

I think the 2nd point is only to cover the loft hatch, but as yuou will need an alarm these days anyway, just alarm that area, and mesh the floor/ceiling with the same as on the walls.

Does this not mean it has to be over 4mm unless its under 30mm x 50mm?
"not less that 4mm (8swg) or not greater than 30mm by 50mm section"

If it said "not less that 4mm (8swg) and not greater than 30mm by 50mm
section" then I would agree that it must be 4mm or more regardless of size.

Ill do alarms for the loft and basement doors too just to be safe.

[JWR]

Why not just Rawl bolt a couple of gun cabinets to the concrete walls.

A few reasons. I have 5 cabinets already and want more space. I happen to be moving from where my cabinets currently are into a room which is having a stud wall installed anyway. I prefer to be able to drop what im doing halfway through gun maintenance or reloading and just lock the whole lot away safely if needed. I have a ton of other stuff that doesn't have to be in cabinets but I also don't want easily accessible like air rifles, crossbows, swords, even the deactivated stuff.

[Alpha1]

How old is you house my house is old you can stand upright in the loft and walk about. All my internal walls are brick. Access to the loft is through a discrete secure lockable door. The loft has electrics installed including sockets and lighting. I have two work benches up there one dedicated to re loading and another dedicated to cleaning and gun plumbing. Cabinets are secured to the brick walls. You just need to line the flooring joists with suitable metal cladding and all is good. The only access to the loft is through the discreet securely lockable door.
I also have other cabinets dotted about the house out of sight.

[JWR]

How old is you house my house is old you can stand upright in the loft and walk about. All my internal walls are brick. Access to the loft is through a discrete secure lockable door. The loft has electrics installed including sockets and lighting. I have two work benches up there one dedicated to re loading and another dedicated to cleaning and gun plumbing. Cabinets are secured to the brick walls. You just need to line the flooring joists with suitable metal cladding and all is good. The only access to the loft is through the discreet securely lockable door.
I also have other cabinets dotted about the house out of sight.

The loft has been converted into 2 bedrooms and both have velux windows which I believe would be another issue with using it as a secure room. Its a 1960s ish concrete construction house.

[Alpha1]

As they are bedrooms probably not a lot you can do with them the Velux windows are not an issue just fit toughened glass. If someone was trying to access my loft through a Velux windows it would be pretty obvious to my neighbours as to what was going on as they tried to bust the toughened glass while the Alarm was going off.

[GeeRam]

The 2 stud walls can be secured by 4mm+ gauge by any section expanded mesh (theoretically these could be meter wide spaces in the mesh?)

Err, no, as someone could crawl through a 1m x 1m square mesh, thus defeating the object of installing it!

As that mesh you linked to is less than 4mm, but less than the 50mm x 30mm min size for under 4mm, I'd say you'd be OK using that.

I know someone with a 'gun room', and luckily, they have 3 solid walls, and only one stud wall, so only needed one wall meshing. But, even though it's an upstairs room, they had to installed a security grille on the inside of the window, and have a proper reinforced, front door style security door installed to get it passed.

[dromia]

My Armoury is in an upstairs bedroom. It was part of an extension so has three "external" walls, the fourth plasterboard wall was covered in 1" square steel mesh.

The room is over the garage so the garage ceiling was also covered in the same mesh. I fitted all the mesh myself. The ceiling in the armoury has a trembler alarm to detect ingress through there.

The window is fitted with bars and the door is solid cored wood faced with steel sheet fixed with unscrewable screws secured by covered access padlocks.

The whole thing has a monitored alarms system fitted in addition to the house alarm.

Before going ahead I held a "site" meeting in the bedroom with people from firearms certification, the alarm installation company and the engineering company that made and fitted the window bars and the door and its steel frame. This ensured that issues could be thrashed out and people were all signing from the same hymn sheet.

Word of advice, don't try and be clever arguing semantics over the guidance.

Both you and firearms certification have the same desired outcome, securing your firearms.

So talk things through, listen to what they say looking for clarity not certainty and arrive at an agreed written specification.

Regardless of how "anti gun" you feel your certification officer may be you will, at the end of the day, have to get their sanction so always best to work with them. Getting their interpretation of the guidelines and then looking to arrive at a solution that will secure your firearms adequately for both of you.