What would a UK national shooting body look like.

[dromia]

Just supposing we were constructing a national body for all shooters and gun owners what would it look like?

How would it be constituted and run?

What would be its constitution, terms of reference and remit.

What would it do.

How would it finance itself.

Practicalities of all this bearing in mind the UK shooting situation.

Any other thoughts on this.

[M99]

The key to this has to be the right people.

Six years ago I was part of a new setup "organisation" it had good vision and great ideas - sadly some of the people drafted in had other ideas. 3 Years later 4 of us from the board walked away after our concerns and challenges were being brushed under the table - far too much head in sand for our liking.

The organisation is still going, it has a new CEO and is making wonderful claims about membership etc - alas as a company, it files its accounts - they show a different picture.

Oddly some of the board drive nice new 4x4s and have lots of gucci kit - something that I challenged way back then, when the accounts were not adding up.

You need honesty and integrity a good vision and support from the masses.

Adam - just a forum thread or something more?

Mike

[dromia]

No, nothing more than a discussion at present, as you say getting the right leadership is key.

However every shooter and gun owner I speak to thinks the current fractured situation with bodies representing specific disciplines without an overall effective organisation that has grass roots support is shocking. They all dread what could happen to firearms ownership in this country when the next shooting tragedy happens, with our representation being so divided and interest specific.

The existing bodies seem to show no interest in improving this situation probably because they would all have to give up things and the maturity required to give up power for influence is not there.

Consequently there is no open discussion or debate on this, therefore within the modest borders of this forum I thought we should kick of the debate, who knows it could be the grit that forms the pearl.

Hope springs ever eternal.

Not wanting to be presumptuous but perhaps we should also discuss here how such a body could come into being in the context of the current structures.

My own take would be that it would have to be member, grass roots driven especially within the existing organisations as from what I see the current leaders have too much vested interest to want to move change in a national direction.

[Sandgroper]

Difficult question to answer. I'd need to give some more more thought, but if you're going to create something from scratch you need momentum to overcome any resistance from the established organisations and to grab members from them.

Raison d'être - That is a question that will be asked, "Why do we need another organisation?" or, "Why will this one be any different?"

If you're planning a coup and are looking to transform an existing organisation, then that's a different kettle of fish.

If the OP is a hypothetical exercise in exploring what the UK shooters want from a truly national organisation, then could get very interesting.

[dromia]

Just for the record, I'm planning nothing.

A debate is necessary though and perhaps if there is enough and wide enough consensus amongst shooters then that could influence the organisations through the membership.

The existing organisations cannot be ignored especially as they seem to be responsible for the current fractured situation and the biggest barrier to and change for the better.

[DaveT]

I totally agree everything that has been said in prior posts about divided / vested interests and the massive difficulties in overcoming their entrenched power-bases...... people will always be the biggest problem!

I doubt that there is much , if any , collaboration between BASC and the NRA at Bisley for example although I would love to be proven wrong.

As food for thought and taking the American NRA as an example; I wonder if the first step is mainly 'political' in trying to get a charismatic (and committed) figurehead (AKA Charlton Heston) identified such that there is a 'visibility and voice' component right from the start around which people rally and from which the practical steps evolve.

Clear strategic & tactical Objectives would need to follow together with an advertising campaign (don't ask me how funded at this point!) in whatever media could be persuaded to assist.... hence a personality who might pull strings.

Why not an approach or even a delegation to ask the USA NRA to assist publicly?..... we could use bringing this all out from underneath our own carpet..... no-one else will notice otherwise!!!

Alongside that the new body (probably consisting only of a few high-profile volunteers at first) would need to grab all the existing / fractured organisations by the balls and get them to stop buggering about in their own corners .....even a confederation under an umbrella constitution with mutually agreed aims and objectives AND speaking via one 'mouthpiece' would be better as an interim position towards unity.

I still think the figurehead / anchor-point personality comes first and we build in layers around that core..... this is a 'political battle' as much as a practical one.

[Sandgroper]

I agree with DaveT, that a National body representing shooting has to be prepared to fight the political fight.

It's core role should the the protection and advancement of all forms of shooting.

Having said that should that political fight be fought by the body itself (like the NRA in the US) or should it be affiliated with a Political Party or form it's own Political Party?

The Shooters and Fishers Party, who help hold the balance of power in NSW could be used a template for a political party. http://www.shootersparty.org.au/content.php/138

The problem is that the current FPTP voting system does not favour small niche parties. I would suggest that any National body should lobby hard as well as indicating to it's members who is the best MP to lobby and vote for - much in the same way BASC does.

As much as I admire the NRA in the US, any affiliation with them would be seen as negative here in the UK. Knowledge from them, on effective lobbying would be invaluable.

Getting a figurehead is a good idea, but it has to be someone unimpeachable and respected by all levels of society. They would also be someone that the media is unable to blank. A woman and/or ethical minority would be perfect - it would overturn stereotypes as well as forcing the media to be wary of changes of discrimination.

Going hand in hand with the political fight would be education. A strong and proactive Educational wing of the organisation is vital. I'll leave it there for the moment while I think on this some more. :-P

[dromia]

The political fight will need to be at two levels, nationally about protecting shooting and gun ownership within the existing legislation and making it more publicly legitimate to legally hold firearms and taking on the lies and misinformation of the antis.

There will also be a political fight with and within the existing organisations to generate any change.

[Sandgroper]

The political fight will need to be at two levels, nationally about protecting shooting and gun ownership within the existing legislation and making it more publicly legitimate to legally hold firearms and taking on the lies and misinformation of the antis.

There will also be a political fight with and within the existing organisations to generate any change.

Sadly, I think the first one is easier to achieve.

The question is how to do it? The problem is the fractured nature of shooting in the UK. No organisation wants to stick it's head above the parapet for fear of being isolated and singled out. They are all for protecting their own branch of shooting, instead of recognising that if all shooting is protected then they are safe as well.

The NRA is hamstrung by it's status as a charity, BASC by game shooting, Sportmans Association by pistols and so on!

What is needed is leadership, an organisation (or figurehead) that is not afraid to roll with the punches and to fight back. The problem is we've been fighting from the trenches for so long we are afraid to go over the top.

[DaveT]

How about we put our heads together to identify 'figureheads' and get on and approach them to sound them out?

It just might 'snowball'...... God that would be good to get the adrenaline going!