SA80 " The Reluctant Rifle"

[Sim G]

Yes just thought of that after i posted. The designers of the SA/80 obviously hadn't a clue what they were doing. My point was that you don't have to be in the army to know your way around firearms. I am sure the designers in H/K had no battle field experience but managed to make the SA,80 a have decent rifle. PS That shows you haw good they are.

Or perhaps those at H&K did nothing more than bring the weapon up to what it was before the bean counters at Whitehall had a hand in it.....

Which really is where the crux of the whole saga lays. You seem very vocal about the designers of the platform. In short, was it the design that was at fault? They mated the tried and tested concept of the Bullpup, with Stoner's rotary bolt and Saive's short stroke piston. Stanag magazines and caliber, coupled with a match grade barrel and a decent x4 Susat that put APWT scores through the roof compared to the previous rifle...

So what was there not to like?

Conversley, you state you do not have to be in the military to know your way around a weapon. OK, so you've never served, that's not an issue. Tell me, what have you designed? Surely you must have some experience that qualifies you to make a judgement of the designers?

And you really think everything out of the factory at Obendorf am Neckar is top notch and innovative?

[ordnance]

Conversley, you state you do not have to be in the military to know your way around a weapon. OK, so you've never served, that's not an issue. Tell me, what have you designed? Surely you must have some experience that qualifies you to make a judgement of the designers?

I didn't say that i was or had not being in the military. As for the designers of the SA/80 All you have to do is look at the hole sorry saga of the SA/80 it you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that it has being a disaster.
The SA /80 was supposed to be a cheap to make reliable rifle they failed on those two points. One of the reasons for going to 5.56 was that a lighter weapon could be built around it allowing more ammo to be carried the designers managed to make a rifle in 5.56 that was as heavy as the 7.62 rifle it replaced.
As for another rifle the m16 would have being a better choice and cost a lot less. Yes i know the m16 had its problems but the americans didn't have to send it to another country to fix it for them. The fix for the SA/80 was to change nearly every part in it now at a cost of £90 million to me that would say that the original designers got it badly wrong. PS If anyone sees the SA/80 as a example of good design then they treatment.

[Sim G]

[As for another rifle the m16 would have being a better choice and cost a lot less. Yes i know the m16 had its problems but it didn't take the Americans to send it to another country to fix it for them. The fix for the SA/80 was to change nearly every part in it now to me that would say that the original designers got it badly wrong. PS If anyone sees the SA/80 as a example of good design then they treatment.

So the Stoner bolt, Sieve piston, Stanag, match barrel, x4 susat are not strong design parameters? But then you tout the M16.....

Actually, do you even know what is being spoken about here, above and beyond what you've picked up on Call of Duty Live....?

Muppet....

[ordnance]

So the Stoner bolt, Sieve piston, Stanag, match barrel, x4 susat are not strong design parameters?

If your idea of a good design for a service rifle is to put a good sight and barrel on it you haven't a clue. The bolt etc had to be rebuilt by H/K great design. You have me on the sieve piston perhaps you could explain the advantages.

[Sim G]

If your idea of a good design for a service rifle is to put a good sight and barrel on it you haven't a clue. The bolt etc had to be rebuilt by H/K great design. You have me on the sieve piston perhaps you could explain the advantages.

Right, a really short lesson for the "12 year old operator"....

Stoner rotary locking bolt. Designed by Eugene Stoner when with Armalite and used in the AR10, AR15, M16, M4, 416/417 and every other AR clone you can name. And, the SA80....

Sieve's short stroke piston. Designed for the FN49 which became the FN FAL. Taken and incorporated in the AR18/180 in the 60's then added to every version of today's fashion of piston driven AR's. S&W M&P, Ruger SR556, Sig 556, H&K 416/417. And the SA80...

H&K great design? Take the G36. A favourite of "gamers" as you know, especially in the K or C variants. Essentially, the G36 is a Stoner bolt and short stroke piston wrapped in a polymer shell..... Not too dissimilair to...... the SA80!

So ultimately, you have shown you really do know nothing, particularly when we're talking about some of the most major and common virtues of today's battle rifles...

Well, you've managed to breech my boredom threshold.... Has your mum not got your bath ready? Perhaps you should toddle along and leave the board to the adults as it's just past the watershed. Night, night little man, sleep well in X box land.....

[ordnance]

So the Stoner bolt, Sieve piston, Stanag, match barrel, x4 susat are not strong design parameters? But then you tout the M16.....

We obviously look at things differently. The way i look at it is that if they used the best tried and tested parts and still managed to make a mess of it then they are poor designers. You thank that makes them good designers. Also i think that makes you look like a Muppet rather than me.

H&K great design? Take the G36. A favourite of "gamers" as you know, especially in the K or C variants. Essentially, the G36 is a Stoner bolt and short stroke piston wrapped in a polymer shell.....

How many of them have being sold to different countries. How many S/A 80-S have being sold to different countries as its such a good design. :lol:
Perhaps you could post a link to (Sieve's)short stroke piston. It will do tomorrow if its past your bed time.

[Jnadreth]

Lee Enfields are still in use by foreign powers...In 2010 a US Marine section (4-5 troops) came under attack from what they thought was a group of snipers....turns out it was 3 guys with Lee Enfields http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/ ... -in-marja/

[Sim G]

How many of them have being sold to different countries. How many S/A 80-S have being sold to different countries as its such a good design. :lol:
Perhaps you could post a link to (Sieve's)short stroke piston. It will do tomorrow if its past your bed time.

How many countries have bought the G36? Somewhere in the region of 30. But, most have done so in order to equip police forces and not their military. Military users only make a fraction of the sales. And some miltary users, such as the British, have found that the G36, although a fine weapon when treated gently by the police, does not fare so well in the military arena.

The G36 was a very quick answer to a huge question. I'd be surprised if you knew what that was.....

If your mammy is letting you stay up a little longer, try some research. See if you can learn about the differences in opertaing systems and their evoloution and the men who designed them.

At the minute, you appear to be nothing more than ignorant. That's fine, because ignorance can be fixed. However, if you choose not to fix your ignorance, that makes you stupid and stupid is forever....

[ovenpaa]

Are you guys going to play nicely?

[ordnance]

That's fine, because ignorance can be fixed. However, if you choose not to fix your ignorance, that makes you stupid and stupid is forever....

Very good were did you find that you obviously didn't come up with it. You might find some more here.
Stupid Is Forever Ignorance Can Be Fixed Quotes


http://www.searchquotes.com/.../

PS I Am still waiting for a link to (Sieve's)short stroke piston. It shouldn't be difficult for someone as good on wikipedia as you.