The Phoenix - F Open vs. F TR

[User702]

My wife has agreed to me disappearing down to Bisley for the day at the end of the month, so I'm in the middle of filling out the entry form for the shoots and I could do with a bit of advice from people here on which would be better for a novice shooter like me to enter.

I'm planning on entering the 400/500/600yrd shoot and maybe the 800/900/1000yrd one as well, but I am not sure which one will see more soundly beaten, F Open or F TR. I think I could enter either of the two classes (I'm planning on using a standard Remington 700 in .308win with a normal bipod, nothing fancy, and will be shooting HPS 155grn loads for both shoots), but I am wondering which would be less unfair to me compared to a more serious and competent long range shooter.

I appreciate that this sounds a bit of a whine, but I'd really like to pit my own skills against other people without too much of a disadvantage being given to a 32" barrelled behemoth in something like 6.5x47, so any advice is welcomed.

Cheers,

James

[John MH]

F(TR)

[johngarnett]

James,

I am no expert on F class but I am sure you will be up against it in the Open class. FTR would be kinder on you I am sure.

I entered FTR some years back with my Remy700. I enjoyed it but I got thrashed compared to the Big Boys. I guess, hence the classes!

I know there are others more qualified than I on here so await expert advice!

Whatever and however, enjoy it!

JohnG :cornwall:

[User702]

Heh! I'm fully expecting to get soundly thrashed in any case. I'd just like to not be as soundly thrashed as ultimately possible!

[Dangermouse]

FT/R
FT/R is for .308/7.62 and .223 on a bi pod only. You can use a rear bag, which you are advised to if you can. The 155gn bullet is still going strong in F/TR with many returning to it having gone up to higher weights.

Other than accidentaly ticking the wrong box, there would be no reason to shoot in the F Open class. You will shoot along side the open shooters, shooting on the same incredibly small targets. Once the scores are in you can see how your points compare to them and how you would have been placed.

To avoid disappointment, I would say make sure that you make every shot count. You want that first sighter to be parallel to the V Bull at every distance and then adjust for wind on the second, so that you are scoring from the 3rd shot. Many shooters are all over the place and do not get scoring properly until half way through the comp. Should you be off the target, then an observant RO may invoke the rules and only allow you one more shot, two in total, to get on the target before pulling you off the point. That is a safety issue, no one wants rounds flying over into the next town. If you are seen to be in the sand, you will probably be given more chance, many shooters dial the wrong way under the stress of a comp despite knowing better - and so a well prepared consistent shot with no malfunctions on the day can creep up the score board.

Good luck, you are planning a lot of shoots in one day, hopefully they will start you on the short range. Don't forget to change your scope settings between 600 and 800 yards, that is not uncommon and a big difference.

DM

[ovenpaa]

DM has given some good pointers, I would say shoot the 400/500/600 before venturing out onto Stickledown unless you have shot there before, Century is a bit more forgiving. I write my anticipated elevation drops at the top of my plot sheet for for each distance so I know exactly what I should be dialling in then take a view on my windage and shoot the first sighter, if all goes according to plan you will be in the black, make your correction and write it down, if you are out 3/4 minute then you can use this to calculate your drops for the next distance, you should have a few minutes between details so write your anticipated elevation down on your 500 plot sheet - it is a good reminder.

It is going to be easy to dial the wrong way unless you are very comfortable with your 'scope so if in doubt do a drawing on your plot sheet to remind you which way to turn the turrets. Remember unless you are very good you will not be detecting 1/4 minute shifts so if in doubt add a bit more on the windage and shoot into the direction you have dialled in for 'safer' shots.

Most importantly enjoy yourself, have fun and yes the targets really are that small....

We will be there up near the pavilion so do come and say hello if you get the chance

[Matt]

As a shooter getting ready to have a proper go at competing in FTR I couldn't agree more with DM and ovenpaa! :goodjob:

Another thing to look at before having a go at 1000yds is the type of scope you are using, depending on how much elevation your scope and base have you might not get there in terms of elevation.

Depending on how fast your ammo is going etc you will need approximately 34 moa of elevation from your 100 yard zero (or approximately another 20 moa from your 600 yard setting) with a 155 doing about 2900fps to get there or there abouts at 1000yds (really general figures smile2 )

If you know what you are zeroed on you can have a look to see if your scope will make it (after taking the other guys advice that is smile2 )

[User702]

Thank you all for the advice, I really appreciate it.

As it happens, I've put a basic elevation card together for the load I'm using based on data from HPS. For a 155grn Sierra Match King travelling at 2850 FPS I get the following drops:



If that data can be believed, then the load will do very well for the shorter shoot and will also stay supersonic to 1000 yrds. If this had been a metric shoot, then things could have got a little out of shape at extreme distance, but in this case, imperial works to my advantage.

I'm still going to be a little bit stuffed for windage though. I've got very limited experience of shooting at longer range with substantial wind.

[johngarnett]

James,

Re long range or any range wind.

I am a target rifle shooter and use open, aperture sights that adjust in 1/4 min increments. When you get to Mecca see if Fultons,next to NRA office, have a AJ Parker Wind Calculator(buy two 'cos the don't last forever and get rare as rocking horse s**t at peak times!). This will give you a guide to the amount of windage in minutes for given wind. There are flags down all the ranges to give you an indication of direction and strength. Check this against the wind calculator and you have a starting point. You may also find a wind guide printed on your score diagram which will help. You need to approximate the wind direction in relation to a clock face and judge the angle against the chart picture.

There were two Powerpoint files uploaded to this site regarding plotting wind and good they are. Perhaps try a forum search?

Does this make any sense? sign01

Hope this helps and doesn't put you off. Wind reading is a black art to an awful lot of shooters if they care to admit it!

JohnG :cornwall:

[User702]

John,

That does make sense and I will have a look out for such a thing, although I do note that the Internet (Gods bless it!) has a poor scan of such a document at the following location: http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/g ... story.html. I can also get an indication of what amount of windage to apply using "Ballistic" on my boing, but having something like that as a backup (paper doesn't run out of batteries). Is always good.

A quick side question about that chart though, how much change would there be for the different bullet weights and speeds?

***edit: Just re-read the sheet and seen that it's for 7.62 rifles. I blame the lack of coffee. Or too much coffee. One or the other.

James