csa vz58 .22 no more...

[Swifty Boy]

As as snayperskaya says, the Saiga 22 was made and marketed as a .22 rifle with a new barrel and .22 bolt. However most of the other components appear to have come from an early 60's AKM that was probably in storage. The original serial number of the AKM has been ground off and replaced with some electro-pencilled numbers. Izhmash don't appear to produce the Saiga 22 anymore (it's not listed on their website) so I'll certainly be hanging onto mine!

When I saw the Highland Arms Vz58 on Guntrader I assumed it would be the Zahal kit fitted and the barrel sleeve welded in place. When I went to see it at William Evans, it appears to actually be a new .22 barrel combined with the Zahal internals. Again, it seems to be based on an original military surplus rifle. Similar thing to the L1A1, M14, SKS etc I suppose.

I'll certainly keep one in mind once I'm ready to fill my next slot - AKMS has just arrived so I want to have a play with that first.

[huntervixen]

As as snayperskaya says, the Saiga 22 was made and marketed as a .22 rifle with a new barrel and .22 bolt. However most of the other components appear to have come from an early 60's AKM that was probably in storage. The original serial number of the AKM has been ground off and replaced with some electro-pencilled numbers. Izhmash don't appear to produce the Saiga 22 anymore (it's not listed on their website) so I'll certainly be hanging onto mine!

When I saw the Highland Arms Vz58 on Guntrader I assumed it would be the Zahal kit fitted and the barrel sleeve welded in place. When I went to see it at William Evans, it appears to actually be a new .22 barrel combined with the Zahal internals. Again, it seems to be based on an original military surplus rifle. Similar thing to the L1A1, M14, SKS etc I suppose.

I'll certainly keep one in mind once I'm ready to fill my next slot - AKMS has just arrived so I want to have a play with that first.

Thats great, hoped that would be the case re the new barrel on the Vz58, the Saiga .22 AKM looks very cool indeed, good buy mate, its bound to go up in value if its out of production, whats it like to shoot?

Nice that it used an original receiver ....

[Swifty Boy]

The Saiga 22 is a lot of fun to shoot, I like the fact that it's built using proper military spec steel parts. Any issues I've had with feed or stoppages is really because I made some spare higher capacity magazines for it and I want the gun to work reliably with them as well as the original 10 round mag. The higher capacity mags put more pressure on the bolt as it reciprocates which caused a bit of stove-piping. I've done some tinkering with the recoil spring strength and tried various ammo with it to get it to work reliably and think I've finally sorted it - a shimmed recoil spring to increase the strength and CCI AR Tactical ammo or Minimag seems to be the sweet spot.

The trigger is pretty good and the gun is actually quite accurate. I'm not a particularly good shot but I have achieved 1 inch groups at 50 yards with the iron sights which is not too bad. The gun doesn't have a side rail so my scope mounting options are limited - I could stick a red dot or long eye relief scope over the handguard or I could replace the top cover with one that has an integrated rail but to be honest I'm quite happy just shooting it with irons.

If I got a Vz58 I'd use that for practical matches as it has 25rd mags. I'd probably stick a red dot scope and forward pistol grip on it. We'll see :-)

I think with these unusual guns if you see one available that you like the look of you need to snap it up as you never know when (or if) it might be available again. That's why I got the Saiga 22 even though it was a bit expensive and why I just traded my HK 416 in against the AKMS - who knows when a dealer might get them in again.

[snayperskaya]

Good point Dave....missed the SKS!

So we have: L1A1, M1 Carbine, SVT-40, SKS, Vz58's (all using original Military receivers) anymore in the works chaps?

They get round the Sec5 rule Dave by using the fact that there is no such thing as a Sec 5 component, once a Sec5 rifle is stripped to component parts it is merely a collection of Sec 1 components and uncontrolled parts....So you can build up a rifle (from these components) with a new unported barrel, plus necessary semi auto deactivation modifications to receivers etc and you then have a Sec1 firearm.

Its a workaround, but it does comply with the law, so its legal!

No its illegal, if a firearm was a Section 5 it is always a Section 5.I enquired this afternoon about a Section 5 Dragunov and asked the dealer if it could be converted into a straight pull and was told no it would be illegal as it will always be classed as a Section5 and this was from a well respected Section 5 dealer that supplies Police and the Military.His view of the SVT-40 is that dealers selling them are on very thin ice.I could be wrong but I have never seen a SKS converted to straight pull and arent the M1s and SLRs built as straight pull from new?, I know Imbels are factory built as straight pull.

[snayperskaya]

Good point Dave....missed the SKS!

So we have: L1A1, M1 Carbine, SVT-40, SKS, Vz58's (all using original Military receivers) anymore in the works chaps?

They get round the Sec5 rule Dave by using the fact that there is no such thing as a Sec 5 component, once a Sec5 rifle is stripped to component parts it is merely a collection of Sec 1 components and uncontrolled parts....So you can build up a rifle (from these components) with a new unported barrel, plus necessary semi auto deactivation modifications to receivers etc and you then have a Sec1 firearm.

Its a workaround, but it does comply with the law, so its legal!

No its illegal, if a firearm was a Section 5 it is always a Section 5.I enquired this afternoon about a Section 5 Dragunov and asked the dealer if it could be converted into a straight pull and was told no it would be illegal as it will always be classed as a Section5 and this was from a well respected Section 5 dealer that supplies Police and the Military.His view of the SVT-40 is that dealers selling them are on very thin ice.I could be wrong but I have never seen a SKS converted to straight pull and arent the M1s and SLRs built as straight pull from new?, I know Imbels are factory built as straight pull.

[dave_303]

Good point Dave....missed the SKS!

So we have: L1A1, M1 Carbine, SVT-40, SKS, Vz58's (all using original Military receivers) anymore in the works chaps?

They get round the Sec5 rule Dave by using the fact that there is no such thing as a Sec 5 component, once a Sec5 rifle is stripped to component parts it is merely a collection of Sec 1 components and uncontrolled parts....So you can build up a rifle (from these components) with a new unported barrel, plus necessary semi auto deactivation modifications to receivers etc and you then have a Sec1 firearm.

Its a workaround, but it does comply with the law, so its legal!

No its illegal, if a firearm was a Section 5 it is always a Section 5.I enquired this afternoon about a Section 5 Dragunov and asked the dealer if it could be converted into a straight pull and was told no it would be illegal as it will always be classed as a Section5 and this was from a well respected Section 5 dealer that supplies Police and the Military.His view of the SVT-40 is that dealers selling them are on very thin ice.I could be wrong but I have never seen a SKS converted to straight pull and arent the M1s and SLRs built as straight pull from new?, I know Imbels are factory built as straight pull.

Many of the SLRs are built from original Enfield receivers, the M1 Carbines are made from War time parts but with new barrels. The SKS was mentioned somewhere on the forum, apparently made by the same chap who makes the SVT-40s and some SLR straight pulls.

I think it's a simple case of the HO can't make its mind up, and please if someone can correct me I'd appreciated it, but even though this is in the guidance, I don't recall seeing it within the firearms acts, so where does this leave the legal standing?

[Demonic69]

I believe that a fully converted firearm can be imported as S1, though I'm not 100%.
That would be great if someone would set-up shop in Poland and ship converted firearms to us here

[Swifty Boy]

The SKS is being sold by A R Buckland who did the L1A1s, it's advertised in Shooting Sports magazine. The ad says they use original unused / unissued Russian receivers with brand new barrels.

[huntervixen]

Good point Dave....missed the SKS!

So we have: L1A1, M1 Carbine, SVT-40, SKS, Vz58's (all using original Military receivers) anymore in the works chaps?

They get round the Sec5 rule Dave by using the fact that there is no such thing as a Sec 5 component, once a Sec5 rifle is stripped to component parts it is merely a collection of Sec 1 components and uncontrolled parts....So you can build up a rifle (from these components) with a new unported barrel, plus necessary semi auto deactivation modifications to receivers etc and you then have a Sec1 firearm.

Its a workaround, but it does comply with the law, so its legal!

No its illegal, if a firearm was a Section 5 it is always a Section 5.I enquired this afternoon about a Section 5 Dragunov and asked the dealer if it could be converted into a straight pull and was told no it would be illegal as it will always be classed as a Section5 and this was from a well respected Section 5 dealer that supplies Police and the Military.His view of the SVT-40 is that dealers selling them are on very thin ice.I could be wrong but I have never seen a SKS converted to straight pull and arent the M1s and SLRs built as straight pull from new?, I know Imbels are factory built as straight pull.

You are quite correct in that "if a firearm was a Section 5 it is always a Section 5.I" , the devils in the detail....... This is how it works, If I was to import an M1 Garand via a Section 5 certified dealer, that firearm would be Sec 5......No question......you can't convert it......even if you did, it would still be Sec 5 and always will be.

But if you imported Garand receivers, bolts etc, they aren't firearms....they are Section 1 components. Then you make the suitable mods required, add a new unported barrel and build up a Sec1 Rifle....You see, in the eyes of the law it didn't previously exist as a Sec5 firearm.

The situation is different in the USA, because the receiver is the "firearm" in the states and that Firearms status can't be changed.

That's how it works in a nutshell.

[snayperskaya]

Thats what I thought, the dealer I spoke to yesterday said he could make an absolute fortune converting Section 5 Brens etc to straight pull but sadly not possible, highly illegal and not worth becoming Mr Bigs Tuesday boy in Strangeways for!!!.

Taking unissued (and essentially new) components and building a new straight pull firearm and getting it approved and proofed as a straight pull is different from converting Section 5's.
I know firsthand that the straight pull Romanian AKM recievers differ in a number of ways from a military receiver, as do Saiga receivers.On a Saiga the bolt is helped into battery by a pin on the lefthand side of the receiver (looks like an additional rivet from the outside) whereas a military has an addition lug on the feed ramp to start the bolt rotation, civilian Saigas also do not have a feed ramp as standard to prevent feeding properly from military high cap mags as they are sold as 'sporting' rifles.Both the AKMs and Saigas also lack the slot in the righthand rail for the auto sear arm and the 3rd axis pin holes for the auto sear which are features on a military spec receiver.