NEW CMMG Mags

[nickb834]

Jammy Devil, I tried and they bumped it, you what US State did you enter? did you go for 15 & 26rd mags too?

You might still get the bums rush, from their website:

Orders typically ship in about one business day. Transit times are estimates.
Due to US State Dept regulations we cannot ship outside of the US or to APO addresses. We can ship to your base or exporter for forwarding.
It is the responsibility of the buyer to ascertain and obey all applicable local, state, and federal laws in regard to the possession, use, and sale of any item purchased from 44Mag Distributing LLC.

Lol - I have a bundle box so they ship to my address in Louisville Kentucky (My base / exporter). For the Billing address you can put in your UK address but with any state it seems (tried both Alabama and Kentucky) - for phone number I did +447926xxxxxx (where x's are my real number).

I did try using my bundlebox address for Billing address but it was rejected - not by 44Mag but by the Visa AVS (address verification service) so it seems that when using a UK Visa on US websites that Visa does not validate all fields entered - presumably it is only Street, Town and or Post code?

I'm expecting either 44 Mag, Bundlebox or US Customs to intervene - I'll try it this one time (as I'd put the order in without realising about 10rd limit) but for future purchases I'll need to look into doing it properly.

[Ginger]

Mags already delivered and waiting for me.

Boy I hate organised people with contacts :lol:

[nickb834]

I did some testing today and think I have narrowed down the problem to be with the magazines in their entirety as opposed to the rifle or ammo.

I noticed that when trying to run CCI MiniMag through that the bolt hung up at the same position every time - take a look at this picture:



You'll see that the bolt has hung up where the rim of the cartridge being fed has caught up on the ridges of the bullet on the cartridge at the top of the magazine. To my mind this can only be due to the magazine spring is far far too strong as it can push the cartridge up with enough force to bind against a cartridge being fed by the bolt.

If I switch to a "ridgeless" bullet say a Lapua Standard, 25% of the time the round misfeeds - this time the bolt will be closer to the chamber, at this point however there will be a round pushed up tight under the bolt causing it to bind up. This is exascerbated by the feed lips on the magazine either being too high OR the magazine sits too high in the well as there is a nick taken out of the right hand feed lip - but also looking at this image - witness marks that correspond with the bolt hitting the lip:



See that the lip at the rear of the bolt carrier has lost some of it's anodised coating where it's smacked the top of the magazine feed lip.

SO - were I of a mind to fix this myself I'd probably do the following in this order:

Elongate the magazine's recess where the mag catch latches such that the mag sits lower in the well, I'd start here as it's the easiest to reverse - but also as 1) it'll lower the feed lips such that bolt doesn't hit 2) should stop rounds binding up under the bolt as one is being fed into chamber.

If rounds still binding up against bottom of bolt as one is fed, then lower mag till this stops.

If rounds no longer binding up under bolt, but round in bolt still binds on round at top of magazine - then snip half a coil from mag spring and retest, failing that snip another half off.

If after that lot it still fails to feed reliably then return the other 3 mags I haven't butchered and replace them with something else!


As it stands I've chased the vendor EMRR for a response from CMMG as to what they think before I make a decision as to what I'll do.

[John MH]

Before altering any magazines try the following:

1. Load as many rounds in the magazines as possible and leave to'Set' overnight, this is advice from a CMMG forum that I'm not totally convinced on but easy to do. Then empty and refill until it's easier to load to max capacity.

2. Consider changing the bolt return spring for a more powerful one, they are available online; http://blackdogmachinellc.net/ciener-la ... g-kit.aspx

3. Try some SK Magazine ammo, it's quite greasy and may not hang up.

When I get my magazines I'll see if I can figure out what the issues are in a range of CMMG kits and uppers.

[nickb834]

Thanks John, I've tried loading the mag up but it doesn't seem to have done anything after a couple of days - I didn't think it would, this is spring steel after all!

I may try the bolt return spring but that's only working round the problem rather than solving it, the rounds shouldn't be presented so high AND with such force as to impinge the bolt. If I've fixed all the other issues and the bolt still fails to go into battery then I'd consider the spring at that point. First I'm going to lower the mag in the well, this should allow the bolt to clear the feed lips (problem 1) and hopefully prevent the rounds impingeing on the bolt (problem 2) after this if rounds are still binding on each other then it's got to be the mag spring (problem 3).

With regards using specific ammo that's again working round problem instead of solving it, I want this rifle to at least chamber everything, but will accept that certain low velocity may not cycle the bolt back far enough(which would only be exacserbated by a stronger bolt spring).

Thanks for the suggestions though, I'm all ears!

[Sim G]

1. Load as many rounds in the magazines as possible and leave to'Set' overnight, this is advice from a CMMG forum that I'm not totally convinced on but easy to do. Then empty and refill until it's easier to load to max capacity.

A magazine spring is never going to "set" over night. Guns and Ammo magazine as few years ago did an article on a Colt Government 1911 that was discovered with a full magazine and was believed to have been that way for over 70 years. The magazine worked perfectly. No difference had occurred. I myself have had magazines loaded for months with only a periodic expansion of the spring. All worked as they should have.

Filling and emptying magazines over and over again is the only way to set a spring, but with modern materials, I'd reckon you would have to do that thousands of times.

Is the problem with the these magazines just that they are not fit for their intended purpose? It seems like with the fitting of this catch, fitting of that catch, operate this, operate that, they can't get a mag to be all things to all men and now have a mag that is nothing to anyone....

I know they don't "look" the part, but the answer really does lie with Booney Packer and their adapter that I highlighted a couple of weeks back. I have sixteen mags for my M&P and each one works exactly how it should....

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=15921

[nickb834]

1. Load as many rounds in the magazines as possible and leave to'Set' overnight, this is advice from a CMMG forum that I'm not totally convinced on but easy to do. Then empty and refill until it's easier to load to max capacity.

A magazine spring is never going to "set" over night. Guns and Ammo magazine as few years ago did an article on a Colt Government 1911 that was discovered with a full magazine and was believed to have been that way for over 70 years. The magazine worked perfectly. No difference had occurred. I myself have had magazines loaded for months with only a periodic expansion of the spring. All worked as they should have.

Filling and emptying magazines over and over again is the only way to set a spring, but with modern materials, I'd reckon you would have to do that thousands of times.

Is the problem with the these magazines just that they are not fit for their intended purpose? It seems like with the fitting of this catch, fitting of that catch, operate this, operate that, they can't get a mag to be all things to all men and now have a mag that is nothing to anyone....

I know they don't "look" the part, but the answer really does lie with Booney Packer and their adapter that I highlighted a couple of weeks back. I have sixteen mags for my M&P and each one works exactly how it should....

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=15921

It's certainly worth considering however - there's no guarantee that this will solve the problem. For eg - what if the problem lies with the CMMG lower not being to exact mil-spec dimensions - such that no magazine sits right?

The best thing to do IMHO is to butcher 1 CMMG mag and get it to work, and then either butcher my other mags and job done OR try one of those Booney Packer adapters.

In the interim though I have gone back to EMRR for a response from CMMG (EMRR are the UK importers now for CMMG) to see what they say.

If for example I can't get a CMMG mag to run at all, then yes M&P may be the way to go but I'm of a mind to figure out exactly what is wrong by making a CMMG mag run.

Cheers for mentioning the Boonie Packer - it's good to know there are options!

Nick

[Mattnall]

Are these the new but cheaper production method mags that's having this problem?
I've never had any problems with the older mags that were two part and assembled with screws all round. The new molded ones may not be as high quality or as tight on the dimensions as the older ones.

ETA: don't worry, finally found the answer way back on P4.
Have you tried these mags with another lower? Could it be your 22 lower that is the problem?

[TJC]

More here.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_15/63787 ... ed___.html

[nickb834]

Are these the new but cheaper production method mags that's having this problem?
I've never had any problems with the older mags that were two part and assembled with screws all round. The new molded ones may not be as high quality or as tight on the dimensions as the older ones.

ETA: don't worry, finally found the answer way back on P4.
Have you tried these mags with another lower? Could it be your 22 lower that is the problem?

It could well be the lower, I'll see if one of the lads with a Spikes lower can get any joy out of these.

EMRR got back to me - CMMG haven't got a response yet but he'll happily replace a mag under warranty if I butcher it to no avail - so there's a free pass there to see if I can get it going! T