Phoenix Meeting : New Rifle Definitions for Service Rifle

[John MH]

Would not work for CSR as each rifle must have a minimum 10 capacity; if they don’t it makes safety supervision more difficult if competitors are changing magazines or using stripper clips during a practice especially during Fire & Movement.

I have only been involved in the definitions not the courses of fire so the definitions of the rifle do fit in with CSR if required.
That a course of fire needs 10 rounds and charging of magazines using stripper clips mid shoot may be a safety concern effectively restricts which rifles may be used. That is up to the organisers of that particular match.
In purely historic/classic matches a rifle that needs to be 'topped up' as it only hold 5 rounds should not be discriminated against as opposed to those that have a 10 round capacity. I do not believe in ring fencing matches just for Enfields and neither I suspect does the Head of Shooting at the NRA.

Well fact is if you have a Service Rifle that can only hold 5 rounds and you turn up at a CSR shoot don't be surprised if you only mange to get 5 rounds off in the time available for the particular practice. Its not likely that allowances on timings of CoFs will be made for less than suitable rifles and even less likely that fumbling with a stripper clip midway through a rundown will be acceptable to the CRO. There are plenty of Historic and Classic matches available that cater for those rifle owners such as the Trafalgar and those put on by the HBSA. The NRA October Match should be open to all SR(a) as you say but you'll need to carefully consider the CoF.

[Gaz]

Just an observation - the fire and manoeuvre match (100-75-50-25yds) that I shot at the winter CSR shoot I attended last year, with my No.4, resulted in me effectively having a 5-round rifle after the first two practices. The match was devised in such a way that I could reload 5 rds immediately after advancing. The CRO was quite pleasant to me and the other first-time Enfield shooters entering.

[John MH]

Gaz

The Match you speak off jus not a problem for an Enfield shooter as each advance from to the new firing position is proceeded by a 'Make Safe' and 'Reload', therefore in each element you will have the opportunity to load 10 rounds. If your rifle only held 6 rounds then it is likely that in each stage thats the number of rounds you'd get off as to start allowing extra time between exposures complicates the match, makes the CRO and turning target operators life more difficult and slows the whole day down.

Rundowns cannot be slowed down to allow shooter with rifles that hold less than 10 rounds to recharge them and Rapid Fire Stages are not going to be extended to allow people to recharge magazines or feed with stripper clips.

As the CSR classes currently stand a not Enfield Historic shooter with open sights would be probably be welcome, given the limitations of his rifle, and would shoot in the 'Iron Sighted Class'.

[ovenpaa]

John, the new definitions are for NRA Service Rifle Competitions and CSR is a different discipline that uses a different set of rules or am I missing something?

[Sandgroper]

John, the new definitions are for NRA Service Rifle Competitions and CSR is a different discipline that uses a different set of rules or am I missing something?

Like you I'm having trouble see what the fuss is about.

The only reference I can find to CSR in the definitions document is for post 1955 rifles for which the current CSR definition is used.

Personally, if the CoF said you started with a full or empty magazine it wouldn't bother me either way and that's from someone who shoots Steyr and Carcano SR's.
The way I look at it, every SR is different with different national perspectives and it's up to the individual shooter to make the most of his or her rifle. The only thing that would bother me is losing the en-bloc clips for either rifle!

[John MH]

The new definitions are, AFAIK, for the Gallery Rifle weekend events such as the SAW and Phoenix. There were a couple of events for 'Service Rifles' where apparently some competitors took the rules to the limits and were using rifles and equipment that was not in the sprit of the match intentions.

It has nothing to do with the NRA series of CSR Matches currently held or those that will take place during the Imperial; those rules and classes are fine and don’t need changing and no one who competes has been moaning.

[Maggot]

Gaz

The Match you speak off jus not a problem for an Enfield shooter as each advance from to the new firing position is proceeded by a 'Make Safe' and 'Reload', therefore in each element you will have the opportunity to load 10 rounds. If your rifle only held 6 rounds then it is likely that in each stage thats the number of rounds you'd get off as to start allowing extra time between exposures complicates the match, makes the CRO and turning target operators life more difficult and slows the whole day down.

Rundowns cannot be slowed down to allow shooter with rifles that hold less than 10 rounds to recharge them and Rapid Fire Stages are not going to be extended to allow people to recharge magazines or feed with stripper clips.

As the CSR classes currently stand a not Enfield Historic shooter with open sights would be probably be welcome, given the limitations of his rifle, and would shoot in the 'Iron Sighted Class'.

Why not get a spare mag or two?

[IainWR]

Mauser 98, for instance, has an intergral mag

[Maggot]

Mauser 98, for instance, has an intergral mag

I know, I own an M67 Kongsberg, but Gaz has a No4 Iain.

It was a No4 specifc question, a rifle will either cope with a CSR COF or it wont.

Would the rules say that since a No4 has a detachable 10 round mag, could you not have a second mag available? Or is that then not as issued?

[IainWR]

Would the rules say that since a No4 has a detachable 10 round mag, could you not have a second mag available? Or is that then not as issued?

Ah, now you are well into the territory of the historics specialists. I retire hurt.