Rcbs chargemaster 1500

[meles meles]

Nigh on 0.3 microns in a crossing 17 knot wind !

[HALODIN]

I can't see how it doesn't.

And does the 1/50th of a grain make a difference down range.

[Primer]

Don't bother with it.

Get a Targetmaster from the UK, hook it up with a decent balance beam scale and a cheap Lee powder dispenser or dippers and you will have a set up that is faster and more consistently accurate than any of the powder dispensers out there bar none including the much vaunted Chargemaster.

Warranty and after customer service second to none and being a UK company easy to contact as well as the equipment designer and owner being a member here.

Here is a review I did of it.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... get+Master

There are others on here singing the Target Masters praises so it is not just me, do a search.

Taking a punt on the Target Master, ordered an RCBS 505 beam scale to go with it and I already have the Lee perfect powder measure.

[HALODIN]

I suggest you do some tests with the 505, it's not always as reliable as people say, but I suspect all beam scales suffer from the same binding on the ends of the pivot/balance pin. I've heard one solution is to grind the ends in to points to prevent this. If you zero the beam and then shuffle it around on the two blades you'll see what I mean.

[Steve E]

Personally I'm looking for something that is more accurate than 1/10th grain, if you load your rounds with a powder trickler you can get it to 1/50th grain with certain propellants.

And does the 1/50th of a grain make a difference down range.

Probably not.
If you can't' shoot straight and hold a good group, no matter good your handloads you won't get good results on the target. Loads to + or - 1/10 of a grain will keep you in a 10" V bull at 1000 yds if you can shoot straight and read the wind. From what I read here there are many who would be unable to achieve that, and think that their ammunition will make up for their shooting deficiencies. It won't.

[TattooedGun]

Personally I'm looking for something that is more accurate than 1/10th grain, if you load your rounds with a powder trickler you can get it to 1/50th grain with certain propellants.

And does the 1/50th of a grain make a difference down range.

Probably not.
If you can't' shoot straight and hold a good group, no matter good your handloads you won't get good results on the target. Loads to + or - 1/10 of a grain will keep you in a 10" V bull at 1000 yds if you can shoot straight and read the wind. From what I read here there are many who would be unable to achieve that, and think that their ammunition will make up for their shooting deficiencies. It won't.

By that same token however. When learning it's better to have the confidence in your ammunition to know that the shot that went high and right was the shooter and not a flyer... But as you say, +/- 1/10th grain would still be in the v-bull at 1000... :)

[HALODIN]

Why knowingly build inaccuracy in to your loads? 1/10th grain usually makes a difference to the point of impact in my experience and to say +/- 1/10th grain doesn't matter to your score, assumes you make the perfect shot each time. Who makes the perfect shot each time? If your ammo is more accurate, then it gives you a greater tolerance to shooter induced inaccuracies. When we say a balance beam is accurate to 1/10th grain, the spread of your loads could range from X.06 --> X.15 which means your batch could vary by 1/10th grain.

[TattooedGun]

Why knowingly build inaccuracy in to your loads? 1/10th grain usually makes a difference to the point of impact in my experience and to say +/- 1/10th grain doesn't matter to your score, assumes you make the perfect shot each time. Who makes the perfect shot each time? If your ammo is more accurate, then it gives you a greater tolerance to shooter induced inaccuracies. When we say a balance beam is accurate to 1/10th grain, the spread of your loads could range from X.06 --> X.15 which means your batch could vary by 1/10th grain.

It's not about knowingly building inaccuracy into your loads, it's finding the measure between having accurate ammunition and the diminishing returns for the amount of labour that comes with getting it from accurate to 1/10th grain to 1/50th grain.

Is the overall return at the end of the range worth the extra effort. if a well placed shot is a V-bull with 1/10th regardless, wheres the point in going to the extra hassle and expense of getting equipment and tooling to take that down to 1/50th grain.

Where does it stop? The slight variations of wind will be much more effectual of where the shot ends up over those distances to 1/50th over 1/10th grain powder throws...

[Steve E]

Halodin
You say +/- 1/10 of again makes a difference to the point of impact, i actually doubt that.
A couple of years ago i was load testing using a well known powder that had just come on the market. 140 rounds of .308 were loaded in .5 grain increments from 44 to 47 grains. the bullet was a sierra 155/2156. Testing was done at 300 and 600 yds, the rifle, an RPA quadlock, shot using sling and jacket, with normal target rifle sights.
70 rounds (10 from each increment) were fired at 300 yds and the group size accurately measured. All 70 rounds fell in a group that was 1 ½ inches wide and 2 inches high, group that would fall into the F Class V bull. In essence there was no shift of group or MPI. that proves to me that at 300 yds a load spread of 3 grains makes no significant difference. It was witnessed by a forum member.

The test was then carried out at 600 yds. All 70 shots fell in a rectangle 3 inches wide and 4 inches high. Again proving that at 600 yds a powder spread of 3 grains makes no significant difference. This is all real world shooting at real distances.
The weather conditions were almost flat calm.

At longer ranges a powder spread of .2 grain will not alter the MPI significantly. May be someone shooting off a bipod/front rest may see an MPI shift but I doubt it. I do not shoot off of rests or other such artificial aids, just pure skill and ability learnt through several decades of shooting.

[HALODIN]

Currently I measure to the kernel with extruded powder, there's about 5 kernels to each 1/10th grain with N560. So I throw the charge, trickle it to as close as I can get and then use tweezers to get it to the centre of the black line each time. My balance beam is connected to a webcam, so I can see quite accurately how it moves with each kernel. I don't find this difficult or time consuming, it's just part of my quest to be as accurate as possible, although I accept others wouldn't go as far.

Have you seen this? I suspect this man cares about 1/10th grain.

It's not about knowingly building inaccuracy into your loads, it's finding the measure between having accurate ammunition and the diminishing returns for the amount of labour that comes with getting it from accurate to 1/10th grain to 1/50th grain.

Is the overall return at the end of the range worth the extra effort. if a well placed shot is a V-bull with 1/10th regardless, wheres the point in going to the extra hassle and expense of getting equipment and tooling to take that down to 1/50th grain.

Where does it stop? The slight variations of wind will be much more effectual of where the shot ends up over those distances to 1/50th over 1/10th grain powder throws...