ball or bullet?

[meles meles]

oomans, we've been havin' splendiferous fun with our Thompson Center (sic) Patriot .45 pistol.



We use 17 gns of 777 instead of blacke powdah and find it reasonably accurate at 25 mards: we can group 5 rounds to about 8 inches. We're wondering if there is anything to be gained by firing proper bullets from it rather than round balls?

[dromia]

I doubt it at 25 yrds.

If that is the best you can do with ball at 25yrds then the load, the pistol or you needs improving.

Are you using a patched ball?

Also dump the Tripple seven, it is awful stuff prone to pressure spiking as it is extremely compression sensitive and the loads are very specific so no room for safe experimentation with loads.

[meles meles]

Oh we expect it might be us that needs improving...

The ball is patched.

The pistol is proofed for 36 grains of black powder but we have found 17 grains of 777 to be quite enough to lob a ball 25 yards

[dromia]

Tripple seven is not really volume compatible with black powder unlike pyrodex.

You really need to stick to Hodgdon's recommended loads unless playing Russian roulette is the outcome you seek, it also means that tweaking loads beyond recommended is foolhardy.

[meles meles]

Tripple seven is not really volume compatible with black powder unlike pyrodex.

We know. We weigh our charges by mass, not volume, and include a compensation factor to allow for the energetic difference betwixt black powder and 777. Fortunately, we're acquainted with a ooman whose PhD was in pyrotekkernickel stuff...


We're just curious to know if a ball is the best projectile to be fired from a short, rifled barrel, or whether we might do better with a bullet.

[dromia]

I find no difference 'tween ball and bullet at that distance a lot of people say the ball is the more accurate.

Experimenting with powder charges, ball diameter, patch thickness and patch lube (dry lubing gives the best consistency). Tripple seven severely limits your ability to experiment with loads (velocity).

Why demean a black powder gun with such abominable stuff and limit your self to what you can achieve with the the gun.

Go black powder and really get the most out of your firearms.

[Sim G]

Ball or bullet will all depend on the rifling twist of the pistol. If TC maintained a traditional twist of around 1 in 30", then you'll never get a bullet to stabilise properly because of the far greater length and weight. Some modern BP pistols such as the ROA have a 1 in 16" so will handle bullets.

But back to Adam's original point that perhaps you haven't fully grasped. Hodgdon Triple 7 is NOT a black powder substitute. It is a nitro powder that can be used in muzzle loading arms, under very specific circumstances. The height of the powder tower and the compression applied to the powder whilst utilizing Ox-Yoke lubed wads in known dimensioned chambers, is critical to the safe use of Triple 7. There is specific load data available for cap and ball revolvers using Triple 7. The propellant is not recommended for muzzle loading pistols.

Anything outside of the specific loading data as issued by Hodgdon runs the risk of producing huge pressure spikes. The result will simply be a catastrophic failure of the arm and all attending consequences. Triple 7 can be a very dangerous propellant.

If you need to use a BP substitute because of your particular range rules or licensing, then get hold of some Pyrodex P. Use fillers, use wads, light loads, heavy loads, ball or bullet, it performs in a versatility regard, very much as real BP. Stop gambling with Triple 7.

[FredB]

If all that is said above about 777 and pressure spikes is true---and it is---then by using a bullet you will very significantly increase the projectile weight and the nominal pressure, so you won't be posting here any more.
Fred

[polemass]

Wow,Stripey...without realising it,you just used one of your badgers life...how many left?

[1066]

oomans, we've been havin' splendiferous fun with our Thompson Center (sic) Patriot .45 pistol.

We use 17 gns of 777 instead of blacke powdah and find it reasonably accurate at 25 mards: we can group 5 rounds to about 8 inches. We're wondering if there is anything to be gained by firing proper bullets from it rather than round balls?

So, is that 8" shot off sandbags, two handed or one handed? Over the years I've tried various bullet forms and weights but always find it's a job to beat a good ball and BP.