Distance Sales Sticky

[Christel]

Please remember when selling a firearm/shotgun as a private person:

Either face to face or remotely, seller checks the buyer has the relevant slot on his/her FAC. Seller adds sold gun to buyer's FAC/SGC.

If via an RFD transfer, the above still stands the seller has to enter the firearm on the purchaser's FAC not the receiving RFD.

The purchaser's firearms department has to be notified of the sale by the seller.

Please remember when selling a firearm/shotgun as an RFD:

Buyer's FAC/SGC has to be filled in by the selling RFD even if transferred to another RFD.

Basically you cannot buy a firearm unless you have a slot on your FAC, selling a firearm to someone without a suitable slot on the buyer's FAC is illegal, selling is accepting payment for it.

This is not up for discussion/debate it is being implemented by certification departments and is BASC and GTA advice also, however comments are welcome.

[Sim G]

Mmmm.... Going to be difficult for some RFDs to charge 50 quid for the transfer when half the paperwork is already filled out.

[dromia]

£50???

I was thinking going down to £85 would be appropriate, they must be "cut me own throat" dealers doing it for £50.

[knewmans]

I've never done it but am I correct that what you're saying is that if I buy from a remote seller who takes the firearm to his local RFD who transfers it to my local RFD who I collect it from I must first have sent my original FAC to someone I've never met for him to fill in the details and hopefully send the FAC back.

Somewhere along the chain I send the money to the seller. He probably wouldn't send until he has my money so at that point he has firearm, money and FAC.

At what point and how would the buyer normally establish that the seller has title to the firearm and how?

[dromia]

You will need to put these questions to your firearms certification department, BASC, GTA or the Home office for an answer as they are the ones who should understand the logic of it.

We haven't authored this, just reporting that it is being enforced.

[ovenpaa]

I suppose as a distance buyer you could ask the seller to lodge the firearm with the RFD who will do the shipping to your RFD, once this was confirmed send your FAC and money to the seller who enters it onto your FAC, notifies the police and returns it to you.

Far from ideal, but then again nor is sending your FAC and money to someone who says he has a firearm.... Things like this are never going to be satisfactory for anything less that face to face sales as you are never 100% sure of what is coming.

Personally I have never experienced any problems with distance purchases or sales however there is a huge level of trust involved.

[Blackstuff]

I've done this a couple of times with an RFD/gun manufacturer but there's no way on gods green I'd do it with a regular individual. Name, address and 'shopping list', no thanks.

Christel - Have you heard/seen something from your police force/HO that they are now only accepting the 'official' method as a legitimate means of firearms transfers? If this is being enforced, you'd hope that the Home Office, or at least your own police force would be telling the people its going to affect??

[bigfathairybiker]

I would have thought that the seller could authorise someone else to fill in the FAC. What if the seller cannot write? Do they just use a stamp with a smiley face?

Mark

[ovenpaa]

From memory this came into force April time of this year and apparently the HO advised the various Firearms departments and allegedly suggested they notify their RFD's

[dromia]

Northumbria have circulated this to their RFDs and have said it has to be implemented nationally. It is also BASC and the GTAs position on how these sales must be done. The overlapping 1968 and 1997 acts that have created this and it has had legal interpretation that this is how it must be to uphold the law as writ.