Practical Shotgun...but WHAT Shotgun?

[cowboyfurlan]

Hello all,

As mentioned in the New Members forum I live in Italy, having transferred myself from Brazil late last year. I have applied for a firearms license (having Italian citizenship lets me do so, however without any sure guarantee WHEN and IF I'll be granted one...) and while I wait for the local powers-that-be to decide I'm daydreaming about entering the world of Practical Shotgun, something I've been wanting to do for ages. I've been studying the internet, watching films on Youtube, reading articles and trying to get myself as informed as possible. However, I have a few questions...first, as a "noob", I'm unsure what division would be better to start with, Manual Standard (pump-action SGs) or Standard (semi-auto SGs)? Standard seems to draw the most shooters, however pump-action SGs have a special appeal to me, what with that CLACK-CLACK sound of the gun being cocked which brings tingles in the spine...

Second is the issue of what to buy, all going well...after years living in a country of gun shops full of empty shelves, stores here in Italy can be a source of much anguish due to their sometimes vast choice (and the fact that what they don't have one can order), reminding me of the episode when I visited Hamley's for the first time at age 8 (and then Hamley's was still the world's best toy shop), then after a while sat down on the floor...and burst into tears, unable to choose what to take home! Exaggerations apart, I have so far boiled down my choices (based so far exclusively on technical criteria) as follow below:

(note: living in Italy, FAC, Section 1, Section 2 and other bureaucratic nonsense mean nothing for me. Italians have to cope with their own bureaucratic stupidities...)

Semi-Auto:
- Beretta 1301 Comp 24" barrel and 9 shot mag- 'nuff said, the queen of IPSC semi-autos IMHO. Ready to rock straight out of the box. Plus (again IMHO) it is the sexiest looking semi-auto in the market...

Pump:
- Benelli Nova, either with a 24 or 26" rib barrel - seems to rule the Manual Standard roost and has tons of extras available to kit it out. Tried one for size at my local shop, very comfortable fit, superb ergonomics, my body seems to fit into it as if it were designed around it. The one downside for me is looks, I find it pretty...ugly.

- Remington 870, in three versions:
> Express with 28" rib barrel
> Combo with 20" sighted and 28" rib barrels
If anyone wonders why the 28" barrel, 1st the local importer doesn't have anything smaller with ribs (and if they have, it has no ribs and, more importantly, no chokes...) and 2nd I've been following the writings of an Ukrainian shooter at http://www.rem870.com/ who uses a Benelli Nova with this barrel size so he can sling a 10 shot mag tube without it protruding from under the barrel (he also claims that it makes longer distance shots more accurate). The importer claims to have the Express Synthetic Super Magnum with a 26" barrel but it is not in their price list - me thinks that the folks there are too lazy to update their page...
> 870 Tactical with 20" barrel and ghost ring sights - like this one http://www.armeriabarbuio.it/WebRoot/Ma ... _12_02.jpg, however does anyone know if one can replace that muzzle brake (which is screwed on) with a choke? If yes, then my local has one...which I would kit out with a +4/+5 extension to replace the original factory +2 one and a Polychoke instead of the muzzle brake (it will make it look really mean...). Of the 870s so far this solution has caught my attention the most, mainly because of a film I saw on Youtube. In any case, the 870 has tons of accessories to customise it, a plus when it comes to choice.

- Winchester SXP - if looks were the only criteria this would be it. It is very sexy. However I wonder how hardy it is, will it survive the rigours of Shotgun IPSC? It has received good reviews on Youtube, where it is claimed to be the fastest pump-action shotgun in the planet. Suffers from a relative lack of accessories though.

Hatsans are out, period. So far, all shops where I have inquired about a SG for PSG have skipped over them. They lack accessories and over here there are vocal complaints about parts availability. And also about reliability. UK PSG shooters are actually better off when it comes to them, as the 24" barrel version with screw-on chokes is not available here - only 18" and 21", both with cylindrical chokes. The 21" version has a screw-on muzzle brake which can be replaced with a Gemini choke (which screws on the outside of the barrel) but the end result screams gerrymander...

On the issue of prices, I have sufficient funds set aside to purchase any of the guns mentioned above (which doesn't mean I want to spend them completely as I still would need things like a cartridge belt, mag extension, etc...). My local shop is giving a good price on the 1301, other stores usually ask for list or close to list price. I have not bothered to inquire about the Benelli M2 because by the time one finishes kitting it out the price will have escalated to beyond that of the 1301. Conversely, he is offering the Nova at list price, with the same results price wise as the M2. The Remingtons are being offered at 50 - 100€ under list, except for the Tactical which is being discounted. The 870 Combo would give me two guns for the price of one, at the same price of a Nova. The SXP is list price but it is quite a cheap gun (ironically because it is made in Turkey...), however the owner claims that Browning International (who distributes Winchester here) has a hard time filling orders (is this true in the UK?) and that it might take a while for him to lay his hands on one if I give the go-ahead. The boss is very keen on the 870's and on the 1301 (in the last case because he knows Roberto Vezzoli, Beretta's sponsored PSG shooter, personally - when I expressed my incredulity he pulled a signed picture of Vezzoli from the nether regions of the shop counter, much to my amazement - "do you want me to phone him?"); I'm torn between the 1301, the 870 (mainly the Tactical if I can screw a choke on it) and the SXP (which I would try sourcing from another Browning dealer near Palmanova to see if I can cut the fuss) but I'm unable to make up my mind...

So, what do you guys think about it? Suggestions welcome! In the meantime, keep daydreaming...


Cheers NB

[daman]

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the options available! I've only shot a few PSG matches myself, so I can't give serious advice, just my own opinions from what I've seen so far.

You don't seem to have considered Open class box feds, Vepyr, Bora, or UTAS. Persoally I wouldn't either... they all seem to need some fettling before they run properly.

In the standard class, I'd agree the 1301 reeks class. I've also heard good things about the SX and mixed reviews of the Mossberg JM Pro.

For manual pump, the Nova has many fans, but you missed out an old stalwart - the Winchester speed pump 1300.

Hope you get your ticket soon and get to enjoy a very addictive and fascinating sport.

atb

-daman

[BamBam]

Super Nova rules the pump roost, you'll appreciate the comfortech stock after a day of shooting it. They load easier and quicker than anything else. I had one, just sold it for the 2nd time, find the whole thing too long and gave me an elbow problem after 2 years of heavy use.

[saddler]

Used nothing but an 870 for my PSG & it was also my main TSG gun (alongside a Tula Toz 66 on some slug stages for classic types)

The tactical 870 you linked to does have a removable choke, breacher style. You can replace this with any of the other Rem-chokes.
An 870 would be a great choice for standard manual category.
Lots of add on options & not much to go wrong.

[cowboyfurlan]

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the options available! I've only shot a few PSG matches myself, so I can't give serious advice, just my own opinions from what I've seen so far.

You don't seem to have considered Open class box feds, Vepyr, Bora, or UTAS. Persoally I wouldn't either... they all seem to need some fettling before they run properly.

In the standard class, I'd agree the 1301 reeks class. I've also heard good things about the SX and mixed reviews of the Mossberg JM Pro.

For manual pump, the Nova has many fans, but you missed out an old stalwart - the Winchester speed pump 1300.

Hope you get your ticket soon and get to enjoy a very addictive and fascinating sport.

atb

-daman

Well, so far getting my "ticket" has taken me two months...not because of bureaucracy but more on account of waiting for set dates (visit to my GP, health check at the hospital, mandatory shooting course, etc...). In the meantime I have had plenty of evenings to chew away my ideas...especially when you are without TV...

Open Class is out for the time being. The Vepr and the Bora are available here; cant say if the UTAS is. My local shop showed me a Derya AR15-lookalike SG which was very enticing...

The Winchester Speed Pump is not available here. Haven't seen any second-hand ones either.

Cheers NB

[cowboyfurlan]

Used nothing but an 870 for my PSG & it was also my main TSG gun (alongside a Tula Toz 66 on some slug stages for classic types)

The tactical 870 you linked to does have a removable choke, breacher style. You can replace this with any of the other Rem-chokes.
An 870 would be a great choice for standard manual category.
Lots of add on options & not much to go wrong.

Thanks mate, that was the one piece of info I wanted dearly to hear about...the owner of my "local" is very enthusiastic about 870's. The Ukrainian shooter whose site I follow started with an 870, moved to a Nova and is now preparing another 870 for PSG matches. I'm eagerly waiting to see his build.

I can see it now... replace the +2 with a +4/+5 mag, fit an external choke (preferably a Poly-choke even if they are very expensive), add a heat shield (eye candy ), side-saddle, replace the front sight insert with a coloured one, maybe exchange the factory stock and fore-end for a Hogue overmoulded one...it would become one heck of a mean-looking SG...

Cheers NB

[cowboyfurlan]

Super Nova rules the pump roost, you'll appreciate the comfortech stock after a day of shooting it. They load easier and quicker than anything else. I had one, just sold it for the 2nd time, find the whole thing too long and gave me an elbow problem after 2 years of heavy use.

I agree about the comfort bit on the Nova. I tried one for size, the butt-stock fell onto my elbow as if it was tailor-made for it. The SG felt as if it had been designed specifically for my body. Pity the looks, though. Also one thing against the Nova is the fact that there is too much plastic around the receiver, if you need to mill the loading port you'll end up with some nasty-looking gashes...


Cheers NB

[BamBam]

The Nova and Super Nova aren't the same shotgun.

[Send it]

I wouldn't write off the Mossberg 930 JM Pro either. A solid and reliable Gun for a sensible price.

[BamBam]

I wouldn't write off the Mossberg 930 JM Pro either. A solid and reliable Gun for a sensible price.

I've seen more of these jam than any other, apart from Hatsans.