FAC : follow up on your references?

[G_C]

Am currently going through the FAC licensing process with Thames Valley Police and am dealing with their inevitable long lead times :-(

They're trialling a new system where they send you SMS messages by way of a status update. To date I've had two:

"From TVP: Your application is being processed. Our quality of service target is 60 working days from receipt. Please do not respond to this message. Zoey Evans"

"Your firearms application has been referred to your Firearms Enquiry Officer who will contact you in due course. Please do not respond to this message. Zoey Evans - Firearms Licensing Manager - Thames Valley Police"

My understanding is that the second message indicates that I have passed the necessary background checks. No surprise to me as a criminal records check won't throw up anything, not even a speeding ticket! My GP report would also show no issues.

However, does the background check also include contacting your two supplied references? Neither of mine have been approached by TVP. Am wondering if that isn't part of the background check or whether it isn't followed up if someone is considered low risk. Anyone know?

[phaedra1106]

Post Code Lottery is the answer :)

Some forces do, some don't, some do the odd one it really just depends on your particular FLD.

Even though Durham can be "anal retentive" at times mine have never been contacted.

[Dark Skies]

I am also in the TVP area.

I have to say that on questioning my referees over the years enquiring if the police had contacted them they have always said no.
I've heard that they check out the backgrounds of the referees themselves and if they're decent upright citizens then they don't usually interview them. I guess they take it as read that they wouldn't have agreed to be referees if they didn't have confidence in your trustworthy nature so there is little point.
If, however, your referees prove to have ... somewhat colourful history ... then that may raise flags. A man is known by the company he keeps

I've no evidence to support this except for the fact nobody has ever contacted my referees since my first FAC.

[G_C]

I am also in the TVP area.

I have to say that on questioning my referees over the years enquiring if the police had contacted them they have always said no.
I've heard that they check out the backgrounds of the referees themselves and if they're decent upright citizens then they don't usually interview them. I guess they take it as read that they wouldn't have agreed to be referees if they didn't have confidence in your trustworthy nature so there is little point.
If, however, your referees prove to have ... somewhat colourful history ... then that may raise flags. A man is known by the company he keeps

I've no evidence to support this except for the fact nobody has ever contacted my referees since my first FAC.

Thanks, this is useful. Yes, I agree that one typically wouldn't offer up a reference unless you were expecting them to say positive things (otherwise why would you choose them?).

Good point regarding the stature of the references and how that might be viewed.

This is my first FAC application though, seems from what you say above that they did contact yours on the initial grant. Maybe that's now changed?

[Dark Skies]

I am also in the TVP area.

I have to say that on questioning my referees over the years enquiring if the police had contacted them they have always said no.
I've heard that they check out the backgrounds of the referees themselves and if they're decent upright citizens then they don't usually interview them. I guess they take it as read that they wouldn't have agreed to be referees if they didn't have confidence in your trustworthy nature so there is little point.
If, however, your referees prove to have ... somewhat colourful history ... then that may raise flags. A man is known by the company he keeps

I've no evidence to support this except for the fact nobody has ever contacted my referees since my first FAC.

Thanks, this is useful. Yes, I agree that one typically wouldn't offer up a reference unless you were expecting them to say positive things (otherwise why would you choose them?).

Good point regarding the stature of the references and how that might be viewed.

This is my first FAC application though, seems from what you say above that they did contact yours on the initial grant. Maybe that's now changed?

To be honest I obtained my first FAC back in 1983 - when the UK was a much more free place to live. Hungerford and Dunblane were years away and shooting sports was not the political punchbag it is now. My application took but weeks to come through - back then you could get a variation in a week with a bit of luck. I know my membership of the local club was checked. My intended cabinet was checked but as far as I recall not my referees.

To put that in some context back then you could buy a SPAS 12 shotgun via the Grattans Catalogue (I kid you not) and when I bought my first pistol I sent my FAC off in the post with some money and a week later a lovely unused police owned Webley MK. IV .38 turned up via the Royal Mail. It cost me £50 including postage.

[G_C]

I am also in the TVP area.

I have to say that on questioning my referees over the years enquiring if the police had contacted them they have always said no.
I've heard that they check out the backgrounds of the referees themselves and if they're decent upright citizens then they don't usually interview them. I guess they take it as read that they wouldn't have agreed to be referees if they didn't have confidence in your trustworthy nature so there is little point.
If, however, your referees prove to have ... somewhat colourful history ... then that may raise flags. A man is known by the company he keeps

I've no evidence to support this except for the fact nobody has ever contacted my referees since my first FAC.

Thanks, this is useful. Yes, I agree that one typically wouldn't offer up a reference unless you were expecting them to say positive things (otherwise why would you choose them?).

Good point regarding the stature of the references and how that might be viewed.

This is my first FAC application though, seems from what you say above that they did contact yours on the initial grant. Maybe that's now changed?

To be honest I obtained my first FAC back in 1983 - when the UK was a much more free place to live. Hungerford and Dunblane were years away and shooting sports was not the political punchbag it is now. My application took but weeks to come through - back then you could get a variation in a week with a bit of luck. I know my membership of the local club was checked. My intended cabinet was checked but as far as I recall not my referees.

To put that in some context back then you could buy a SPAS 12 shotgun via the Grattans Catalogue (I kid you not) and when I bought my first pistol I sent my FAC off in the post with some money and a week later a lovely unused police owned Webley MK. IV .38 turned up via the Royal Mail. It cost me £50 including postage.

Interesting historical insight, thanks. As you highlight, it's not the same now!

[phaedra1106]

To put that in some context back then you could buy a SPAS 12 shotgun via the Grattans Catalogue (I kid you not) and when I bought my first pistol I sent my FAC off in the post with some money and a week later a lovely unused police owned Webley MK. IV .38 turned up via the Royal Mail. It cost me £50 including postage.

That's it, go on, remind me

1978, first firearm, S&W model 29 revolver (Dirty Harry 44 mag but with a 6" barrel). Cheque for £250 and FAC in the post to Mays of London, a week later Postman Pat hands me a nice wooden box wrapped in about 2 layers of brown parcel paper.

I'm now going to go cry quietly in the corner until it's time to go to the gun club tonight where I will spend the evening (as building officer) forcing everyone who comes to shoot to listen to me witter on about the good old days of shooting ............

[swotty]

I fall within Avon and Somerset and referees are definitely contacted for both SGC and FAC.

[Alpha1]

As Club secretary I have been contacted on more than one occasion by Durham and also Cleveland inquiring about a persons suitability to be in receipt of a fire arm certificate. I have also been contacted and asked about peoples variations and whether or not the Club caters for the type of firearm they are asking for.
The people I am referring to are obviously a member or a new member of my Club. Usually renewals or variations and lately some first time applicants.

[Dark Skies]

That's it, go on, remind me
1978, first firearm, S&W model 29 revolver (Dirty Harry 44 mag but with a 6" barrel). Cheque for £250 and FAC in the post to Mays of London, a week later Postman Pat hands me a nice wooden box wrapped in about 2 layers of brown parcel paper.

I'm now going to go cry quietly in the corner until it's time to go to the gun club tonight where I will spend the evening (as building officer) forcing everyone who comes to shoot to listen to me witter on about the good old days of shooting ............

Sorry. Still, at least we had those good times - pity the poor buggers starting out now.