Variation for Non-HOA Club

[dromia]

Just following through what you have been posting and there are always exceptions.

I have known of people who are members of non HO approved clubs who have been accepted by the police as reason to possess, subject to it being shown that suitable insurance is in place.

I suspect that what you have said is the approach of most certification authorities, although in the OP's case it would, as always, be best get this from the horses mouth and speak with his local certification department and get their view.

[Thorney]

Oh quite agree, I've quoted the law, but we all know the application of this can be quite varied from police to police so its worth asking

[dromia]

We all know that the mere law of the land in no way inhibits certification departments having their own take on it especially as there is no way of holding them to account other than via the courts, shame at being wrong dosen't exist anywhere in the 21st century.

[hitchphil]

HO approved clubs are approved by type, not really calibre. They are: Smallbore, Fullbore & Muzzle loading. They can be any one, combo or all three. You can be a member of as many clubs as you like. It does not need to be your primary club for FB vs say SB.

A 'non HO approved club' isn't a 'club' its a group of existing shooters (often shotgun or air so dont need any approvals). So I dont understand how you say they can be a non HO approved club? outside of NRA or a range complex owner there is no such thing.

If they are FAC holders then they still need to have some link - all being members of the same HO approved club. NRA is a HO approved club, so members can form such groups & they can all shoot together. But non NRA members or non FAC holders cant use own or members firearms? To use a range they either need to be members of the range owing club or an affiliated one, if not then they are guests. if shooting over private land then I know less, but it strikes me that a group acting like a club but shooting over land are likely to attract the attention of the Police?

So the question does not make sense......yet.....

Phil sec of a HO approved club for FB, SB & ML.

[Mattnall]

A 'non HO approved club' isn't a 'club' its a group of existing shooters (often shotgun or air so dont need any approvals). So I dont understand how you say they can be a non HO approved club? outside of NRA or a range complex owner there is no such thing.

Before a club (or a group of shooters or whatever the collective noun is) can apply for HO approval it needs 10 members, minimum. A club may or may not be granted approval according to the HO so it would still be a club in their eyes.
I am a member of two clubs that are not HO approved, one is going for approval as we speak and I submitted the forms just after Christmas, both are NRA affiliated.

As long as you have a safe place to shoot the firearms you want to get and have target shooting as a condition then there should be no problem.

[Blackstuff]

I'm the defacto secretary of a non-HO approved club and we CAN'T become one because we only use S1 and S2 shotguns for PSG.

We have good relations with the force that covers where we shoot and they're more than happy with the way we are organised and run things. We've had meetings with the entire FLD to give them a better understanding of PSG and what guns people are likely to be asking for and they also ring me for advice on such matters. They have signed off S1 shotguns when our club is the only place that some members have to shoot them and we're also cleared for solid slug ammo.

We have insurance and are affiliated with the UKPSA.

Its a different kettle of fish when it comes to rifles/'firearms' though given the inherent greater potential risk involved.

[Thorney]

I'm the defacto secretary of a non-HO approved club and we CAN'T become one because we only use S1 and S2 shotguns for PSG.

We have good relations with the force that covers where we shoot and they're more than happy with the way we are organised and run things. We've had meetings with the entire FLD to give them a better understanding of PSG and what guns people are likely to be asking for and they also ring me for advice on such matters. They have signed off S1 shotguns when our club is the only place that some members have to shoot them and we're also cleared for solid slug ammo.

We have insurance and are affiliated with the UKPSA.

Its a different kettle of fish when it comes to rifles/'firearms' though given the inherent greater potential risk involved.

That is odd, I imagine they are looking at it as the fact that shotguns (no matter what type) dont formally come under target shooting (clays dont either - they are treated as simulated game) so are giving it the 'computer says no' treatment, its the same reason Sect 1 shotties have different licencing as they are not recognised as a target rifle firearm. Does show that the rules really are crap and subject to so many different opinions that it makes navigation of them a nightmare (which is what I think they want anyway). We deal with 19 different polices forced to date, I did test and asked the same 3 questions of all of them (basic stuff on fac rules etc) and got 11 responses back (the rest just ignored it) and of those 11 responses I got 11 different answers.

[IainWR]

I'm the defacto secretary of a non-HO approved club and we CAN'T become one because we only use S1 and S2 shotguns for PSG.

We have good relations with the force that covers where we shoot and they're more than happy with the way we are organised and run things. We've had meetings with the entire FLD to give them a better understanding of PSG and what guns people are likely to be asking for and they also ring me for advice on such matters. They have signed off S1 shotguns when our club is the only place that some members have to shoot them and we're also cleared for solid slug ammo.

We have insurance and are affiliated with the UKPSA.

Its a different kettle of fish when it comes to rifles/'firearms' though given the inherent greater potential risk involved.

That is odd, I imagine they are looking at it as the fact that shotguns (no matter what type) dont formally come under target shooting (clays dont either - they are treated as simulated game) so are giving it the 'computer says no' treatment, its the same reason Sect 1 shotties have different licencing as they are not recognised as a target rifle firearm. Does show that the rules really are crap and subject to so many different opinions that it makes navigation of them a nightmare (which is what I think they want anyway). We deal with 19 different polices forced to date, I did test and asked the same 3 questions of all of them (basic stuff on fac rules etc) and got 11 responses back (the rest just ignored it) and of those 11 responses I got 11 different answers.

It's not sensible, but it's also not odd. S15 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, which is the legislation that sets up the Home Office Approval scheme, applies only to full-bore rifles, small-bore rifles and muzzle-loading pistols. Correspondingly, S44 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997, which is the legislation that requires a HOA club to be entered on a certificate conditioned for target shooting, only applies in respect of rifles and muzzle-loading pistols.

[Thorney]

I'm the defacto secretary of a non-HO approved club and we CAN'T become one because we only use S1 and S2 shotguns for PSG.

We have good relations with the force that covers where we shoot and they're more than happy with the way we are organised and run things. We've had meetings with the entire FLD to give them a better understanding of PSG and what guns people are likely to be asking for and they also ring me for advice on such matters. They have signed off S1 shotguns when our club is the only place that some members have to shoot them and we're also cleared for solid slug ammo.

We have insurance and are affiliated with the UKPSA.

Its a different kettle of fish when it comes to rifles/'firearms' though given the inherent greater potential risk involved.

That is odd, I imagine they are looking at it as the fact that shotguns (no matter what type) dont formally come under target shooting (clays dont either - they are treated as simulated game) so are giving it the 'computer says no' treatment, its the same reason Sect 1 shotties have different licencing as they are not recognised as a target rifle firearm. Does show that the rules really are crap and subject to so many different opinions that it makes navigation of them a nightmare (which is what I think they want anyway). We deal with 19 different polices forced to date, I did test and asked the same 3 questions of all of them (basic stuff on fac rules etc) and got 11 responses back (the rest just ignored it) and of those 11 responses I got 11 different answers.

It's not sensible, but it's also not odd. S15 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, which is the legislation that sets up the Home Office Approval scheme, applies only to full-bore rifles, small-bore rifles and muzzle-loading pistols. Correspondingly, S44 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997, which is the legislation that requires a HOA club to be entered on a certificate conditioned for target shooting, only applies in respect of rifles and muzzle-loading pistols.

I'm trying reconcile the not odd but not sensible comment :) But I take your point.

[IainWR]

I'm trying reconcile the not odd but not sensible comment :) But I take your point.

The position is consistent with the law, which is an ass.