Gun storage - exceptions to general rules

[Chapuis]

Thanks for the info Chapuis.
Re the rifles, your right about not mattering about what action they have, but I was just thinking about whether on not showground shooting with .22 rifles (as opposed to air rifles) was still allowed today. If so I'll bet it horrifies some Chief Constables!

Why should it horrify Chief Constables?
Even the NSRA have their own mobile rifle gallery.

No offence intended Paul but from the questions you are asking I'm just wondering if you are a new shooter or are simply someone who has limited exposure to shooting, perhaps by way of only shooting small bore prone rifle?

[Blackstuff]

Thanks for the info Chapuis.
Re the rifles, your right about not mattering about what action they have, but I was just thinking about whether on not showground shooting with .22 rifles (as opposed to air rifles) was still allowed today. If so I'll bet it horrifies some Chief Constables!

Why should it horrify Chief Constables?
Even the NSRA have their own mobile rifle gallery.

It does horrify CC's (and plenty of shooters), that's why the exemption to hold an FAC to run one is currently under review. No doubt when they find the appropriate Bill to tack it onto it will be getting removed at the earliest opportunity.

[paul mercer]

Hi Chapuis,
Thanks for your reply, the answer is no. I'm not new to shooting, I started with shotguns in the early 1970's and moved to pistols and rifles around 1979 until the handgun ban, I now only shoot LSR with a modified 10/22 from Rimfire Magic. I haven't shot prone since I was a schoolboy and today, many, many years later I find that if I do lie down to shoot I can't get up again!
My earlier questions re aluminium barrels and holographic sights was because I am 'doing up' (for want of a better word!) another 10/22 and was considering fitting those things to it. As regards the legality of taking a club rifle to an 'away' shoot for a probationary member, I was just interested to hear what others on this excellent Forum have to say, as it is quite obvious there are a number of very experienced shooters who contribute to it and it is always worth listening to others views on a subject.
Finally, my comment about fairground shooting with .22 rifles horrifying Chief Constables, it was just a thought about what they think of 'Joe Public' being allowed to shoot with .22 cartridge rifles (admittedly usually chained to part of the gallery) in a public place in this day and age, particularly as some have strong views about guns in general.

[Chapuis]

Thanks for the info Chapuis.
Re the rifles, your right about not mattering about what action they have, but I was just thinking about whether on not showground shooting with .22 rifles (as opposed to air rifles) was still allowed today. If so I'll bet it horrifies some Chief Constables!

Why should it horrify Chief Constables?
Even the NSRA have their own mobile rifle gallery.

It does horrify CC's (and plenty of shooters), that's why the exemption to hold an FAC to run one is currently under review. No doubt when they find the appropriate Bill to tack it onto it will be getting removed at the earliest opportunity.

I know it's under review in fact it's gone a little bit further than that. However, the present system doesn't horrify shooters, after all it worked perfectly well for more than 100 years and is the route that the majority of us will have entered the sport. It didn't really cause any problems whatsoever until a few shysters' in recent times decided to manipulate/abuse the system for personal gain.
What does horrify shooters is loosing the present system potentially resulting in further hurdles to new entrants to the sport who have traditionally done so via the small-bore rifle club route. If it would simply be a matter of requiring all miniature ranges and small-bore rifle clubs to possess a FAC to acquire and hold rifles and ammunition, no problem as I'm sure that almost all already do so. In fact I can't personally name a club that doesn't have a FAC. The proposed changes have the potential to totally kill off small-bore shooting over a period of time.

[Chapuis]

Hi Chapuis,
Thanks for your reply, the answer is no. I'm not new to shooting, I started with shotguns in the early 1970's and moved to pistols and rifles around 1979 until the handgun ban, I now only shoot LSR with a modified 10/22 from Rimfire Magic. I haven't shot prone since I was a schoolboy and today, many, many years later I find that if I do lie down to shoot I can't get up again!
My earlier questions re aluminium barrels and holographic sights was because I am 'doing up' (for want of a better word!) another 10/22 and was considering fitting those things to it. As regards the legality of taking a club rifle to an 'away' shoot for a probationary member, I was just interested to hear what others on this excellent Forum have to say, as it is quite obvious there are a number of very experienced shooters who contribute to it and it is always worth listening to others views on a subject.
Finally, my comment about fairground shooting with .22 rifles horrifying Chief Constables, it was just a thought about what they think of 'Joe Public' being allowed to shoot with .22 cartridge rifles (admittedly usually chained to part of the gallery) in a public place in this day and age, particularly as some have strong views about guns in general.

It was your comment on pump action .22 rifles or possibly just the way that I read it that made me wonder if you were new to the sport, so I apologise if I have caused offence as it was not my intention to do so.

To be absolutely honest I think most of this will now be pretty academic as how many shooting galleries using conventional firearms are actually still operated by showmen. I doubt if there are more than one or two throughout the whole of the U.K. Those that haven't gone over to some sort of laser system will probably have reverted to air guns long ago simply on cost and/or because of a risk reduction after being assessed by the H&S bodies or insurers.

[Pippin89]

It didn't really cause any problems whatsoever until a few shysters' in recent times decided to manipulate/abuse the system for personal gain.
What does horrify shooters is loosing the present system potentially resulting in further hurdles to new entrants to the sport who have traditionally done so via the small-bore rifle club route. If it would simply be a matter of requiring all miniature ranges and small-bore rifle clubs to possess a FAC to acquire and hold rifles and ammunition, no problem as I'm sure that almost all already do so. In fact I can't personally name a club that doesn't have a FAC. The proposed changes have the potential to totally kill off small-bore shooting over a period of time.

Unfortunately we live in a time where those few shysters give all shooters a bad reputation. The general public don't read about that event and ascertain that it is a rare occurance. They read it and assume that all rifle clubs are operating without FAC's and they we are all barbarians running around the country shooting semi auto rifles at motorway service stations with our tops off.....
Personally I am not too displeased with the exemption being closed. As you say, it would only affect a bare minimum of clubs who don't currently have FAC's and those that can't subsequently get one, are probably potential for giving us shooters more of a bad name. The only real downside to these clubs is the additional cost which is a pain admittedly. But also not a huge expense in the grand scheme of things.

[Mattnall]

Thanks for that, but as I read it it applies to a member of a club who does not have an FAC to enable them to use the club guns on the club premises, I cannot see that it authorises a club member who does not have a FAC to take a club gun to another range.
What can be done however is for the club chairman or secretary to give written authority to authorise a specified FAC holder to take the club gun to that range for the non FAC member to use, providing it is returned to the club armoury at the end of the shoot.

It might be good practice to take a copy of the club FAC and possibly a letter from the secretary when taking club guns but neither are required to allow any full member of a HO club to possess the club's firearms either on the club's premises or anywhere else when going shooting or other reason connected with club business involving the firearms and ammunition. An FAC is not required by any member doing so.

It is also the way the NRA get to hand out their firearms for members to shoot and how HO club members can go participate at competitions away from the home range.

[Mattnall]

Thanks for the info Chapuis.
Re the rifles, your right about not mattering about what action they have, but I was just thinking about whether on not showground shooting with .22 rifles (as opposed to air rifles) was still allowed today. If so I'll bet it horrifies some Chief Constables!

Why should it horrify Chief Constables?
Even the NSRA have their own mobile rifle gallery.

It does horrify CC's (and plenty of shooters), that's why the exemption to hold an FAC to run one is currently under review. No doubt when they find the appropriate Bill to tack it onto it will be getting removed at the earliest opportunity.

The 'showground exemption' (actually s11(4)) is still in use today and many small-bore clubs use it as a vehicle to encourage the take up of the sport by new members. Remove this exemption and the intake of new and especially young shooters will be severely restricted possibly leading to the death of shooting sports in the long run.
I was told that the NSRA doesn't hold an FAC and most of the shooting at LRC is conducted under s11(4).

And the s11(4) exemption hasn't ever been an issue with criminal use of firearms, certainly not that I can recall and not a 'public safety' concern. The proportion of FAC held firearms used in criminal activity is most likely far greater so any evidence lead review of the law that restricts s11(4) ownership and use would adversely impact S1 firearm ownership if the same conditions were applied.

It is false, scandalous and sensationalist headlines and misinformation spread by those ignorant of the facts that will lead to unwarranted further firearms restrictions, restrictions that will not have any positive impact on criminal use of firearms. The powers-that-be are concerned by any civilian firearms ownership and would gladly welcome a total ban citing 'public safety' as the spurious reason to further control the population. Firearms owners are viewed by the certification system as criminals that haven't yet committed a crime but need to be monitored closely to catch them when they do.

[Pippin89]

It is also the way the NRA get to hand out their firearms for members to shoot and how HO club members can go participate at competitions away from the home range.

I hadn't considered that but its a very valid point. I believe that NRA affiliated clubs can borrow firearms from the NRA too. Do you know how that is covered? Or does it require one member to be a member of the NRA?

[Blackstuff]

I know it's under review in fact it's gone a little bit further than that. However, the present system doesn't horrify shooters, after all it worked perfectly well for more than 100 years and is the route that the majority of us will have entered the sport. It didn't really cause any problems whatsoever until a few shysters' in recent times decided to manipulate/abuse the system for personal gain.
What does horrify shooters is loosing the present system potentially resulting in further hurdles to new entrants to the sport who have traditionally done so via the small-bore rifle club route. If it would simply be a matter of requiring all miniature ranges and small-bore rifle clubs to possess a FAC to acquire and hold rifles and ammunition, no problem as I'm sure that almost all already do so. In fact I can't personally name a club that doesn't have a FAC. The proposed changes have the potential to totally kill off small-bore shooting over a period of time.

'Horrify' is probably the wrong word to describe my own (and every other shooter I've had a conversation about this) feelings on the ability for anyone with a 'miniature rifle range' which isn't a gun club to sally into a gun shop and buy whatever .22 firearms they want and presumably an unrestricted amount of ammo, 'ridiculous' is probably more accurate.

Ever wondered how a certain community somehow manages to have guns and ammo aplenty for poaching and the like but have neither the criminal record free background or storage facilities for firearms ownership? I wonder were they get the kit from(?)

I feel its pretty hilarious that I have to defend my possession on firearms restrictions considering some of the discussions I've been involved in on the forum and with the exception of Chuck and less than a handful of others, I've got the most 'open' attitude towards firearms ownership on here.

To be clear, I in no way shape or form support a removal of the S11(4) exemption for legitimate clubs/set ups, (why would I, I want it for my own club and my enquiries into it lead me to the info relating to the whole system apparently being 'suspended' for new permissions until the review is over) however I think the person running the shoot/club/possessing the firearms and ammo should have to have an FAC, that's it.

I did ask the FLD that covers my clubs area what credentials were required to get permission to operate a MRR outside of a HO approved gun club set up but they declined to answer as it was 'moot until the review was finished. Does anyone on here know?